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PAL format
I’d like some enlightenment:
Here’s what I think I understandShooting NTSC 24ps would be shooting 25 PAL right?
Now, I understand that 29..97 is…. 25 PAL as well….Does this mean that PAL material has the NTSC 24fps film look?
No “video” / 29.97fps type of look?Los Angeles – TV Promo Editor – FCP – AVID
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10 Replies
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[Olivier Prudhomme] ”
Shooting NTSC 24ps would be shooting 25 PAL right? “Now, I understand that 29..97 is…. 25 PAL as well….””No. NTSC is a very specific format. Standard Definition 720×486, 29.97fps. PAL is another completely different format. 720×576 at 25fps.
24fps is a film frame rate. 23.98 is an HD format that closely resembles a film frame rate, but is one that you can deliver to TV networks for easy conversion to 29.97 (59.94i).
NTSC is the North american standard … PAL is the European standard. Well, in terms of broadcast anyway.
[Olivier Prudhomme] “Does this mean that PAL material has the NTSC 24fps film look?
No “video” / 29.97fps type of look?”Yes…25fps being very close to 24fps, it has the film look. BUT…when interlaced…50i…it still can have a video look. Interlaced means two different fields…and there are two fields in a frame. So 25fps interlaced is 50 individual images…and 29.97fps is 60i…60 individual fields…so 50i can look very video like, as it is.
BUT…25p will look like film, yes.
Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def -
It helps Shane. Thx
Still some confusion though…
Now I get that 23.97NTSC = 25PAL
But doesn’t 29.97p also = 25pPAL
Now for interlaced.
We often refer to “29.97i”…. which in fact should be 59.94i since it has 2 fields/sec, right?
If I am right then 29.97i NTSC is 59.94i NTSC = 50i PAL, right?Los Angeles – TV Promo Editor – FCP – AVID
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[Olivier Prudhomme] “Now I get that 23.97NTSC = 25PAL”
It doesn’t. I said it doesn’t. There is no 23.98 NTSC format. NTSC is a standard definition format…720×486 at 29.97fps interlaced. And I don’t know what you are trying to say by “=”….it doesn’t equal. Different frame size and frame rate, so it doesn’t equal it. 24fps does not equal 25fps.
[Olivier Prudhomme] “But doesn’t 29.97p also = 25pPAL”
No…again, 30fps vs 25fps…not equal. And different frame sizes. So I don’t know what you mean by “=”
[Olivier Prudhomme] “We often refer to “29.97i”…. which in fact should be 59.94i since it has 2 fields/sec, right?”
This is the confusing part…because many people say 29.97i, many others say 59.94i. They mean the same thing. 30fps video, interlaced. Not TRUE 30fps…but slightly slower due to technical issues. But they mean the same thing.
[Olivier Prudhomme] “If I am right then 29.97i NTSC is 59.94i NTSC = 50i PAL, right?”
Sorta…I’m still REALLY CONFUSED by what you mean by “=”.
Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def -
I should have been clearer.
I was trying to figure out the equivalence (hence the = sign) between NTSC and PAL.So basically it is useless to try to find equivalence because in fact they are 2 different system requiring 2 different type of cameras.
Los Angeles – TV Promo Editor – FCP – AVID
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They are completely different systems. Different frame rate, different frame size.
UNLESS YOU ARE TALKING HD…then both are 1920×1080, or 1280×720, or 3840×2160…and the thing that differs is the frame rate.
Interlaced PAL is 50i. Interlaced NTSC is 60i.
Progressive PAL is 250. Progressive NTSC would be 30p.
BUT…then we get confusing over here because we also have a 23.98 (24p) format that’s a film frame rate, so things look more film like. And we shoot that format and deliver that format and that format will play on the web and in theaters. BUT…when it goes to air, the 23.98 is converted to 59.94i (60i)..as over the air is always 29.97 interlaced. Web can be 29.97p, 23.98p…25p…60p…. but always progressive.Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def -
This article lays it out pretty simple as to how NTSC and PAL are still relevant in HD. May help you out.
https://www.lifewire.com/why-ntsc-and-pal-still-matter-1847856 -
Olivier,
There’s no such thing as “23.97 NTSC.” People misuse “NTSC” as a synonym for anything made in the US, as well as using “PAL” for anything made in Europe. These are inaccurate.
Broadcast frame rates in the US are based on our 60Hz electricity. Early TV technology established 30 fps but interlaced from 60 fields per second. That’s where the “i” comes from, and it persists today. But motion pictures are (generally) shot at 24fps. Putting 24fps material on 30-frame TV requires some manipulation of frames in order to play it in real time; this is called “pulldown.”
The decimal-place frame rates came into use when TV went full color; in order to get all the signals timed together and be compatible (color TV had to still be viewable on a black-and-white set), the overall frame rate was adjusted to 29.97. This meant the frame rate adding pulldown to 24-frame material had to actually be 23.976. 24-frame footage shot today for American TV is actually 23.976 fps.
“29.97i” and “59.94i” are, I think, able to be used interchangeably. Both refer to the same number of frames per second. (There is also 59.94p, used in a 1280×720 frame on some US channels, including ESPN, Fox and ABC.)
European electricity is, I think, 50Hz instead of 60Hz, so substitute “25i” for 29.97i and “50i” for 59.94i.
24fps is not “the same” as 25fps – they’re just close.
John Heiser
Senior Editor
o2 ideas
Birmingham -
Shane, Todd and Ross thanks a lot.
A lot of info to digest but very good stuffLos Angeles – TV Promo Editor – FCP – AVID
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[John Heiser] “European electricity is, I think, 50Hz instead of 60Hz”
Yes, Europe is 50Hz.
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That’s good info, Todd.
John Heiser
Senior Editor
o2 ideas
Birmingham
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