P2 for long form doc series

[Tim Wilson]

For a terrific example of a P2 workflow, check out Shane Ross’s article about his experience on a doc for the History Channel.

I’m sure he and other folks here will weigh in with specific answers of course, but the article is really great stuff…

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[Shane Ross]

I am facing the same situation…looking at a possible series that will shoot using the HPX2000 and HVX-200…or would be be looking at Varicam. And we not only have the issue about storage space needs and backup…but the added issue of the network not accepting data files as master source…they require tapes, and tapes with time code that matches back to the project file.. So if we went this route, we’d have to import the P2 footage into FCP or an Avid (or use Raylight with FCP to just read the files), output to DVCPRO HD tape using a rented 1400 deck, then RECAPTURING that footage into FCP. Not really ideal…and pretty much making the benefit of shooting tapeless moot.

We are trying to convince them that tapeless is here…and only getting more widely applied, so they’d better get with the times (Red, Sony XDCAM EX, ALL the new Panasonic models).

BUT…we were looking at shooting 720p24 @ 23.98, to keep the data rate and storage space requirements low. Editing at full quality (as we cannot convert to another format when we injest) and just getting more storage. I know I can fit 78 hours on 1.5TB…so getting 10 or more TB isn’t that cost prohibitive….not with the many reliable options out there.

Another issue is what are our back up options? Hard drives are too volatile…Blue-Ray DVD not enough storage for the cost. SO we are looking at LTO tape backups. This way we can provide TAPES that Discovery can then have in their hands…with TC that matches to the cut.

If they will accept that…that is.

Skipping the offline/online thing…My workflow works too well for me. I save a few days in trying to reimport the clips and relink them to the cut and fixing any slippage or other errors that might occur. Take the extra days money and drop that into more hard drive storage.

BUT…we are still working on this…so…let’s keep this thread open for back and forth, no?

Shane

Littlefrog Post
http://www.lfhd.net

[Simon Morgan]

My usual workflow is shooting HDX900 & HVX200 (second camera P2) shooting both at 720p23.98. I’ve found the HDX900 gives a great picture (when the camera is set up well) as does the HVX200. I love shooting HVX200 when we are on the road as I can unload everything from my 16GB cards onto my G4 and look at all the footage… great! I am lucky that I have a 1200a deck that I can capture from, so this works out very well too… I have 3 FCP machines set up at the office with over 12TB of storage, so usually storage isn’t a problem. On a corporate doc I can bring everything in a DVCPRO HD codec, skip the online process and I’m really satisfied…and the client is blown away by the quality.

Although the workflow works very well for what my company does in house (when we shoot & edit our own footage)… when I’m hired to cut a longform HD series (post only) I have been using my Kona card to downconvert from the SDI out of the 1200a deck or JH3… cut everything in DV over 4-5 months… then go into online. The only reason why I am trying to push the P2 is that the workflow works so well for me, and I can pitch people on faster than realtime ingest, less post expense (no digitizing needed) and no online needed.

Unfortunately the networks require the HD shooting to be done in 1080 for delivery, and we are in the same situation with having to supply field tapes… so until now I haven’t found any better way to do long form doc series in HD other than on the HVX900 in 1080. I would love to shoot in AVCIntra, capture in smaller file size (like DV) and then just relink to hi-res media after the fact… still the question is where to store the master files cheaply… your LTO tape is a great option…

Anyway, my series is going, so decisions have to be made in the next month or so… I’ll keep you updated… and I’d love to hear what you decide.

[Shane Ross]

WE shoot and edit 720p 23.98…and deliver a 1080p 23.98 master. The footage upconverts well. I watched my output on the DR Groups 20 ft screen projected by a 2K Barco projector and was in HEAVEN.

No complaints yet.

[Simon Morgan]

do your broadcasters not ask you to acquire in 1080? I can barely tell the difference between 1080 and 720 myself (on regular panasonic 26″ LCD monitor)… only time I can tell is when I split screen side by side… I can pick out a few things here and there. All my broadcasters ask for 1080 acquisition… do your broadcasters care as long as you give them the masters they are after? I usually have to deliver in HDCAM.

[Shane Ross]

The broadcasters I do shows for don’t care. They consider the Varicam as a high end main camera, and it only shoots 720p. I have never been asked to shoot in 1080p, only deliver a 1080p master. They consider 720p a perfectly fine acquisition format.

Shane

Littlefrog Post
http://www.lfhd.net

[Bill Stephan]

The big problem with doing projects for networks such as Discovery, E! or a few others is that they require all the original footage from the programs they purchase. They then create huge archives of footage, which they then recycle into new productions without further payment. They want tapes to file away on their library shelves for use in future productions. The video world has not yet grasped the concept of archiving huge libraries of footage data that has never touched videotape. This concept now is beginning to catch on in mainstream film production due to the explosion in DI work.

Bill Stephan
Senior Editor/DVD Author
USA Studios
New York City