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Output levels from Kona 2 don’t match FCP’s scopes
Hello
I’m trying to pin down a problems I’m having, and I hope that someone out there could give me some ideas. Here’s the problem: my Final Cut Pro scopes say that my picture levels are legal (all within FCP’s ‘0 – 100%’ range. Range check says its all ok). When I play out to digibeta via Kona 2′ SDI output, then monitor this on an external waveform monitor, my white’s are above the legal level, and some of my blacks dip below.
I have a feeling it may be happening when the Kona is down-converting my 1080i material to 625i25, but that’s just a hunch.Here are the details of my system:
1. Media is all animation, created digitally, supplied as 1920×1080 sq pix targa sequences, which I make into quicktime movies using the Apple 8bit uncompressed codec.
2. This material sits in my 1080i FCP sequences without the need to render (FCP version
5.0.4)
3. Max white set to be processed as white, not super-white.
4. Almost all clips sit within the 0-100% luma range, and pass the range check test. Anything illegal is dealt with using broadcast safe filter.
5. Edit to tape using Kona 2 (v2.0), which downconverts from the 1080i to 625i, and outputs SDI to Sony DVW-A500P deck.
6. Luma levels on the playout tape are then illegal, with whites too high and blacks too low. Chroma is good though.Any opinions on this will be very gratefully accepted.
thank you
Richard. -
7 Replies
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no one in their right mind would trust the FCP scopes for accuracy. Eric Peters – designer of the AVID Media Composer, always stated that the AVID internal scopes were for a quick reference only, and not to be used for critical alignment, and that an EXTERNAL SET OF HI QUALITY SCOPES should always be used on an AVID. You are DREAMING if you think that you are getting a hi quality set of accurate scopes within FCP. I have never seen one broadcast operation, or TV station rely on FCP or AVID internal scopes to monitor their levels. You must have an external set of scopes.
Sorry – that comes right from the top. And yes, I know they cost a fortune.
bob Zelin
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[Bob Zelin] “You must have an external set of scopes.
Sorry – that comes right from the top. And yes, I know they cost a fortune.”
Or go with Final Touch HD. $4,995 gives you accurate scopes, the best color correction on the Mac and a killer broadcast safe filter.
Yes, the levels are dead on accurate from Final Touch.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Food Network’s “Good Eats”
HD Editorial for “Assignment Earth”“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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[Richard O] “4. Almost all clips sit within the 0-100% luma range, and pass the range check test. Anything illegal is dealt with using broadcast safe filter.”
Broadcast safe should be applied to all clips in the timeline.
Levels Filter takes care of the blacks. Set it to 98 or 97.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Food Network’s “Good Eats”
HD Editorial for “Assignment Earth”“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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I have found that FCP’s broadcast safe will take care of luma, but doesn’t seem to clamp chroma values to go illegal. (even setting conservative values)
ANyone else found this?
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Since you already have the external waveform/vectorscope you should feed the Kona 2 SDI output to it and see how it differs from the FCP scope. As as Bob said, trust the external scopes instead.
-chrispy
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Thanks for your posts on this topic. The external waveform monitor was, of course, very enlightening. Seems that the chroma is fine but the luma is ‘buzzing’ – bubbling over the legal levels at top and bottom. Interestingly, this happened when Final Cut was removed from the equation and I was viewing the Kona’s own test patterns. Crucially, this problem only occurs when the native format is 1080i and it is downconverting to 625 standard def. If it is standard def throughout, with no downconversion, the luma is all stable and lovely.
The extremely friendly tech guy at Aja in California reckons on it being a hardware fault on the card itself, so a new one is on its way now. I’ll let you know how it goes!
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Hi Bob…Love your posts, and I come from the world of broadcast, so don’t jump down my throat with this comment. FCP scopes are actually very accurate if your system is setup correctly. Yes, ext. scopes should be used, and if you’re doing broadcast, its a no brainer…. but for people who can’t afford the $5000 Final Touch system, or a high quality $10,000 Tektronics setup, should take a little comfort in knowing that FCP will give you pretty accurate results…even as REFERENCE.
Ron
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