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Output from original 2398 to 2997 BAD 2:2:2:4 only
This is getting beyond toleration.
I used to be able to get away with playing an original 23.98 sequence out to 2997, but no longer.
ProResHQ apparently forces FCP to output everything in 2:2:2:4, which is unacceptable for broadcast.
ProRes did not have this problem. But it seems that as far as this particular project is concerned, it does. One other little complication is that the original footage is 720P60, although the frame rate is true 23.98.
Upconverting doesn’t help. But here’s the real problem: Sometimes I could work around the 2:3 problem by having the KONA card do the cadence, which it does, correctly, when you leave the original media on a 2398 timeline and play it out with the FCP settings assigned to 2997. The complication now is that we can add closed captions to our output modules — but the closed caption Quicktime generated runs at the absolute framebase of the timeline — so now we are forced to play 2398 out of the 2997 timeline, otherwise the captions go out of sync at the rate of 5 frames per second. Nice.Looking forward to the day when Apple finally figures out that 2:2:2:4 is unacceptable at any time anywhere and what 2:3 really means. Unfortunately this would mean that FCP would have to be able to function at the field level, which it obviously cannot.
Looking for another solution.
jPo
You mean “Old Ben”? Ben Kenobi?
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13 Replies
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[Joseph Owens] “I used to be able to get away with playing an original 23.98 sequence out to 2997, but no longer. “
What? Where? Not in FCP. It’s always been 2224 in software.
[Joseph Owens] “One other little complication is that the original footage is 720P60, although the frame rate is true 23.98. “
720p60 is just the name of the overarching codec. Since a Varicam can shoot 1-60fps, it’d be silly to have a separate codec for all of those frame rates.
[Joseph Owens] “The complication now is that we can add closed captions to our output modules — but the closed caption Quicktime generated runs at the absolute framebase of the timeline — so now we are forced to play 2398 out of the 2997 timeline, otherwise the captions go out of sync at the rate of 5 frames per second. Nice. “
Loverly, ain’t it? I don’t know if this will help you at all, but you can add proper 3:2 pulldown in Compressor, but at that point as you know, your program will be one solid movie.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “you can add proper 3:2 pulldown in Compressor”
That may be what I will have to do. FCP always forces a render if the frame rate is not identical to the sequence (so much for their “open timeline”, oh, cruel joke) and it of course forces the cadence to 2:2:2:4 so you’re done.
jPo
You mean “Old Ben”? Ben Kenobi?
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[Joseph Owens] “Looking forward to the day when Apple finally figures out that 2:2:2:4 is unacceptable at any time anywhere and what 2:3 really means.”
This might be my favorite quote of the year.
Of course, I could say the same of many clients and even some post “professionals,” not just Apple. I’ve actually seen 2:2:2:4 pulldown recently in some of the pre-movie advertising that’s displayed in movie theaters these days. If you think that 2:2:2:4 looks bad on your preview monitor, imagine it on a panning shot projected on a cinema-sized screen… It’s the visual equivalent of riding in a car with someone who keeps hitting the brake pedal every half a second.
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[Joseph Owens] “That may be what I will have to do. FCP always forces a render if the frame rate is not identical to the sequence (so much for their “open timeline”, oh, cruel joke) and it of course forces the cadence to 2:2:2:4 so you’re done. “
Are you delivering 1080?
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well that’s why I love tape and a Kona3
out to HDCam@23.98
reinjest off tape in PD mode
lay in CC and Out to Tape 1080iSaves the $8500 hardware CC encoder for 23.98
Gives the Client a 23.98 master for BluRay etc
Gives the Client a Broadcast ready 1080i master and SD dubsTakes a little more time to make things right
Happy Client= Returning ClientDoug Beal
Editor / Engineer
Rock Creative Images
Nashville TN -
Delivering in everything… 1080P2398sF, 1080i5994, 525i2997 Anamorphic and Letterbox… you know the usual.
I’m going to try the Compressor route. I don’t have the Frame Conversion board for my SR deck, didn’t seem worth the $15K at the time..
jPo
You mean “Old Ben”? Ben Kenobi?
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[Joseph Owens] “‘m going to try the Compressor route.”
Make sure in the Frame Controls tab set the ‘Output Fields’ to ‘Top First’, and Deinterlace and Rate Conversion set to ‘Fast’.
I have a preset made if you want it. It would make your file 1080, though.
Jeremy
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Might have been helpful a couple of hours ago, but I hit those settings, although I chose “Best” for rate conversion.
We’ll see what comes out the other end. Hope its not what usually emerges… (parents will know what I’m talking about)jPo
You mean “Old Ben”? Ben Kenobi?
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[Joseph Owens] “Might have been helpful a couple of hours ago, but I hit those settings, although I chose “Best” for rate conversion. “
It won’t work. Best does an optical flow. I’d cancel it and change it to fast. That will segment it properly.
Jeremy
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That’s what I thought but I’ve got this “best” mentality… cancelling.
Thanks for the insight.
jPo
You mean “Old Ben”? Ben Kenobi?
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