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OTish: Adobe Release
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[Jeremy Garchow] ” I linked to the response specially, not to the other fears. CC 2015 seems like it should be a big deal, and while rewriting code is of course, a huge task, I just don’t see the reason to version it yearly.”
I know you linked to the response directly, but the discuss in the rest of the thread illustrated what I was talking about as well. One thread killed two birds and I didn’t want to waste a stone by throwing it in gift horse’s mouth (or something like that).
As a consumer I don’t necessarily see the need for annual upgrades for most software but at some point someone got the ‘annual upgrade’ ball rolling and everyone had to join in or risk being left behind (or worse, perceived as being lazy/slow/unable to keep up with the competition). I mean, Mac OS and FCP updates used to be every two years too and, IIRC, there was like a 3-4yr gap between Windows XP and Vista. Now it’s a comparative flood of updates (even worse if you factor in mobile apps).
People want it more, they want it cheaper and they want it better than it ever has been. Tough spot for any company to be in.
If this was CS land do you think Adobe would’ve gotten away with not bumping AE up to the next version (CC2014 is 13.2 and CC2015 is 13.5)? How loud would the web-rage be from users feeling ‘ripped off’ that Adobe is trying to charge for the same version of AE twice (regardless of all the money and work that has gone into rebuilding and improving the guts of AE)?
For reasons already mentioned (and mostly agreed upon) I think it makes since for a Adobe to do major releases all at once with minor releases on a ‘when it’s ready’ basis. It’s a flexibility that didn’t exist in CS land even if Adobe is only flexing it partially right now as opposed to all the way.
[Jeremy Garchow] “I just want Adobe to get better. They are working hard at it, I know, its just seems odd that CC is really like CS, and not that much different, except for the cost structure. “
I guess it boils down to where the expectations came from. I paid more attention to what Adobe said than what the Internet said and based on that, and what seems sensible given the apps in question, I think Adobe has been consistent with the execution of of its public message.
Though I do think Adobe should offer a buyout option, should have price/package tiers (like they did for CS) and Adobe Stock should have a ‘free for CC members’ tier that gives CC subscribers some free images each month. I certainly do want to Adobe to increase the overall value of CC for subscribers (not just release new apps) but I guess I’m willing to give them time because it’s a pretty big ship to maneuver.
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[Oliver Peters] “These were all cleaned up when I did the release install and got rid of the CC2014 versions.”
Anyone know if there’s a way to remove old versions after the fact? reinstall 2015? As I like to do, I updated in mid-project and frankly, am having some… issues. Audio related, and no show-stoppers, but I’d be happy if they went away. Maybe having old versions installed is the problem…
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~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~
~”The function you just attempted is not yet implemented”~ -
You can remove any app from the Creative Cloud application.
Looks like this:
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[Jeremy Garchow] “Final Cut Legend still works to this day without an update since Feb 2010 across a few OS (and architecture) changes, and many hardware changes.”
I heard from somewhere or other that it still works in El Capitan. Funny how everyone got so mad at Apple for “killing” FCP 7 and “forcing” people to move to X or something. Still works pretty well for an allegedly dead app.
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~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~
~”The function you just attempted is not yet implemented”~ -
[Andrew Kimery] “If this was CS land do you think Adobe would’ve gotten away with not bumping AE up to the next version (CC2014 is 13.2 and CC2015 is 13.5)? How loud would the web-rage be from users feeling ‘ripped off’ that Adobe is trying to charge for the same version of AE twice (regardless of all the money and work that has gone into rebuilding and improving the guts of AE)? “
That’s a loaded question.
I didn’t have to keep paying for it. If I didn’t like the development, I didn’t buy the upgrade. I am now constantly paying for it, and constantly reading the yearly press releases. I do not mind the rental model, but I do feel underwhelmed when it comes to After Effects, especially when you look at what Pr has done in the same amount of time.
It’s going on 2 years now, that Ae was supposed to get a speed bump. Just leave all that shit out if it’s not ready. Isn’t this the advantage? Release it when it’s ready? It’s not ready. don’t release it.
So, let’s walk this back. I AM paying for it and it’s not here. Oh, Yay! More cheap stock footage! Just what we need!
Development, and the pace of it, was a major selling point for CC. This was not a secret.
[Andrew Kimery] “I paid more attention to what Adobe said than what the Internet said and based on that, and what seems sensible given the apps in question, I think Adobe has been consistent with the execution of of its public message.”
This is all I am going on. I linked to an Adobe response specifically about one of the specifics issue we are chatting about. Nothing else. As regards to overall Ae speed, there’s official language somewhere, I’m sure it’s on one of the Adobe blogs from 2012 or 2013.
You know how everyone talks about FCPX being faster, and those that don’t really use X say, how can it be that much faster? It’s a difficult speed test as editing is hard to speed test, but for me personally, I will say that X allows more creativity more quickly for a number of reasons and in a number of different ways. People will take that subjectively as it’s subjective.
In the case of graphics/compositing, I can literally show you how much faster Motion is doing the exact same thing with the exact same plugins at the exact same quality (and most of the time much higher) than Ae. We can start with a simple playback of a file without any effects. Sh*tty ‘ole Motion that never gets updated and is scoffed upon by the world at large and is over 10 years old.
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[Charlie Austin] ”
Anyone know if there’s a way to remove old versions after the fact? reinstall 2015?”Every app has an uninstaller in the app’s folder. Just run the uninstaller for each app, even new ones. Then from the CC desktop, just install the apps again that you want.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Jeremy Garchow] “That’s a loaded question.”
I don’t think it’s a loaded question. I think it’s a reasonable, if hypothetical, example of peoples’ differing mindsets under two different payment schemes. Neither of which is inherently better than the other. IMO, under the old business model it would have been ugly (really ugly) if Adobe unveiled 13.5 as the replacement for 13.2 (unless it was a free upgrade but that could’ve run afoul of SOX ;)). Of course that’s just a symptom of a greater problem with customers in general which is everybody wants something different and everybody is convinced they should be priority number one.
[Jeremy Garchow] “This is all I am going on. I linked to an Adobe response specifically about one of the specifics issue we are chatting about. Nothing else.”
Right. Adobe said they can/will release feature upgrades at will, as opposed to only annually, and they have been doing that.
The sticking point seems to be that you thought Adobe would drop major releases at will but you’ve also said that it makes sense to coordinate major releases of apps for cross-compatibility reasons. And if we are sticking with the whole suite motif then releasing a suite piecemeal doesn’t seem logical so we are where we are. Adobe drops major releases all at once under the CCYEAR banner and smaller features are added throughout the year for whatever app is ready for them.
If Adobe just had a couple of apps I’m sure the process could be more dynamic, but with so many apps you’ve got to maintain more control. One example is just to help stem off version confusion among users. For example, it’s certainly easier knowing that all the CC2014 apps ‘go together’ as opposed to having to remember all the individual version numbers for each app and which versions play nice together (ex. Prelude 2, PPro 7, and AE 12 go together, Prelude 3, PPro 8 and AE 13.2 go together, Prelude 4, PPro 9 and AE 13.5 go together, etc.,).
[Jeremy Garchow] “. I do not mind the rental model, but I do feel underwhelmed when it comes to After Effects, especially when you look at what Pr has done in the same amount of time. “
I can understand that and if I was a heavy AE user I might feel the same way. It’s also part of the ‘problem’ of having a more mature, established app. I think mature apps in general were part of Adobe’s problem as they became their biggest competitor in a sense. New features vs under-the-hood improvements… a balancing act for all devs.
[Jeremy Garchow] “As regards to overall Ae speed, there’s official language somewhere, I’m sure it’s on one of the Adobe blogs from 2012 or 2013.”
I’m sure general speed improvements are listed every year (for every program from every software company ;)) but the blog post that gets referenced all the time about the AE team primarily focusing on speeding up AE is from January 1st, 2014.
https://blogs.adobe.com/aftereffects/2014/01/happy-new-year-and-a-question.html -
[Jeremy Garchow] “I didn’t have to keep paying for it. If I didn’t like the development, I didn’t buy the upgrade. I am now constantly paying for it, and constantly reading the yearly press releases. I do not mind the rental model, but I do feel underwhelmed when it comes to After Effects, especially when you look at what Pr has done in the same amount of time.”
What’s happened with Ae is not necessarily immediately impressive, but was really necessary for Ae to get any of the performance improvements we all want to see in the future. I think the CC model is a lot more amenable to this kind of work than the old sales model.
I’m not sure it would have gone over so well for most of the Ae team to spend more than a year focused on a major re-architecture project and then release 13.5 as a paid CS9 upgrade. In fact, I think that’s part of why this architecture has persisted so long; “slightly less slow now, stay tuned for more” would look terrible in the press release.
The magnitude of what has been done in Ae is huge, even if what shows is still small. This is the most exciting release for me since CS5 and 64-bit, because it shows the Ae team is working to make the fundamentals modern. It means (to me) that Ae will not be haunted by its own legacy the way products like DS and XSI were before their EOL, or the way products like Smoke maybe are today.
Yes, there is still a long way to go, but surely we’ve all worked on projects where a lot of background “axe-sharpening” work has to get done before we can start doing the things that impress the clients?
Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive | RenderBreak [blog] | Profile [LinkedIn] -
which plug in isn’t compatible?
Andy Field
FieldVision Productions
N. Bethesda, Maryland 20852 -
I’m actually going to do a separate post about plug-ins.
We’ve gotten press releases from GenArts (Sapphire), Boris (both the Boris plugs and Mocha), and Red Giant, that all their stuff is good to go.
No reason for people not to continue posting here of course, but a separate thread will be easier to track….
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