OT: Windows 8 makes Vista look fantastic

[Shawn Miller]

[Greg Andonian] “Every time I read about the changes in Windows 8 I kept telling myself that it’s not going to be as bad as it sounds. But it’s starting to look like my fears were justified.”

I know people who are using Win 8 as their main OS, today… it’s not that bad. Watch enough usability studies, and you’ll see users like this regardless of OS or software application.

Shawn

[Santiago Marti]

Hello everybody, My name is Santiago, I’m from Argentina and i’ve been reading this forum since the FCP debacle, let me tell you, it’s been really fun!!!!

I am a PC user, been editing for 15 years with lots of NLEs, like speedrazor, *EDIT, etc. Now I’m on CS6 and loving it, i own a red one and a red epic, so my workflow is dictated by red native format.

I am running win8 right now, it is not bad at all, if you don’t like the GUI, well, you can avoid it most of the time and stick to the traditional win7 GUI, but if you learn a little you’ll like win8 GUI.

I use an IBuyPower laptop with a six core i7, 12 GIGs of ram, system SSD and a GTX560. Couldn’t be happier with this machine, it runs 5k at 1/4 res very fluidly on CS6 and Win8. It is the best WinOs to date for me. I also had the chance to try an HP prototype tablet, with a core i5, Win8, and a docking station that turns the tablet into an all in one. The concept is really interesting!

Well, will see how it evolves.

Santiago Martí.
Director at
https://www.robotrojo.com.ar

[Walter Soyka]

I’ve tried the consumer preview. Metro is certainly different and takes a bit of getting used to, but humanity somehow survived without a start button prior to Windows 95, and we collectively managed to learn to use a bunch of other new computing interfaces, including DOS, Win 3.1, Win95, OS9, OS X, iOS, and Android. Like FCPX, Metro requires retraining, though I don’t think that it requires thinking different to the degree that FCPX does. Also like FCPX, I think that some people will find they actually prefer Metro after getting used to it, and I’d suspect that you’ll have go pry the Start button from the cold, dead hands of others.

There are a few cool things to like about Metro. It’s clean and uncluttered with very little chrome, and a big emphasis on design, layout and large type to convey information instead of dozens of on-screen widgets, icons, and doodads. It’s eminently touchable, but still reasonably keyboard-friendly with instant search.

While it will create a lot of headlines, I don’t know if Metro will really big a big deal for most of us. Without a Metro-native NLE, Metro will be a bit like Launchpad. I won’t be spending a ton of time in it: the vast majority of my time on my workstation is spent in the apps I do my work in, not on the desktop or in the start menu. Whether I launch AE, Pr, or C4D from the start menu, the task bar, the dock, or a tile seems immaterial.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events

[Lance Bachelder]

Wow that’s quite the laptop! Good to hear about Win8 – I haven’t tried it yet but have no issues with Win7. Now Vista, nothing can be that bad!

What kind of shows are doing in Argentina with all that awesome gear?

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Irvine, California

[Santiago Marti]

Yes, it is quite a laptop, and not that expensive indeed. Originpc sells even better ones with the same barebone chassis.

I work mostly as a camera rental and as a DIT on set. Then i often do the color grading and sometimes edit myself. I used top be a fulltime editor and aftereffects artist. I will post some of my work soon!

Santiago Martí
Director at
http://www.robotrojo.com.ar

[Derek Andonian]

Well, it’s good to see people are using it and even running PPro CS6 on it and liking it. That’s encouraging.

How do you get to the metro tiles to launch a program without the start button though? There’s a key on the keyboard with a Windows logo that now brings up the start menu, does that get you there?

I’m guessing Win 8 will make a lot more sense when used with a touchscreen monitor. I’m not sure I’d want to use one for a desktop though- having to raise my arms over and over again to poke and swipe at stuff seems like it would get tiring after a while…

______________________________________________
“THAT’S our fail-safe point. Up until here, we still have enough track to stop the locomotive before it plunges into the ravine… But after this windmill it’s the future or bust.”

[Santiago Marti]

Every app has it’s tile, but i got used in win7 to press the Windows key from the keyboard, then type the name of the app and hit enter before the word is complete.

If you use it with your hands, you have to swipe the sides and the top and bottom, if you use the mouse, the corners are used. I spent one hour trying to figure how to shut down the computer!!!! But truth be told, it is the fastest Windows to date, no doubt.

Santiago Martí
Director at
http://www.robotrojo.com.ar

[Derek Andonian]

santiago marti “But truth be told, it is the fastest Windows to date, no doubt.”

That’s good to hear- I’m glad it’s working well for you.

While I’ve wondered about how well it will work for standard desktop PCs, the idea of using it on a tablet does sound cool. The Metro interface looks very similar to Windows Phone 7- which, although marginalized by iOS and Android, is actually a really good OS from what I hear.

One new idea I had that I thought would be cool- and I’ve heard they ARE actually working on these- is a laptop with a screen panel that can be swiveled around and closed with the screen facing up. That way it could be used as a tablet OR a laptop…

______________________________________________
“THAT’S our fail-safe point. Up until here, we still have enough track to stop the locomotive before it plunges into the ravine… But after this windmill it’s the future or bust.”

[Andrew Richards]

[Walter Soyka] “Metro is certainly different and takes a bit of getting used to, but humanity somehow survived without a start button prior to Windows 95, and we collectively managed to learn to use a bunch of other new computing interfaces, including DOS, Win 3.1, Win95, OS9, OS X, iOS, and Android.”

And aside from DOS, what do all of those have in common? Visual cues in the UI. Once users wrapped their heads around pointing devices, they figured out that there were “buttons” on the screen that did stuff when clicked. DOS did not, and that is why the Macintosh and later Windows was so popular. DOS was hardly mainstream, only hardcore early computer users used DOS or its command line peers. The GUI and the pointing device brought general purpose computing to the masses and made the tomes of command line syntax obsolete. Users could find their own way via visual conventions being established for GUIs and pointing devices.

Where Win8 and Metro fails on the desktop is that there are no visual cues for essential functions. The vast majority of the world’s 500,000,000+ Windows users will be utterly lost in Win8 because they are expected to know secret-handshake “gestures” (which are not really gestures when you aren’t using touch) that they must perform with a mouse pointer when they are used to 15 years of having visual cues to click on with their mice. There is no on-screen indication of how to access the Start Screen from the desktop (once you’ve figured out how to get to it), how to close a Metro App, or a host of other essential navigation functions.

To wit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4boTbv9_nU
There’s a guy who has used Windows for years, prefers it, and is utterly lost in Win8. I can relate (to the being lost part- I’ve always disliked Windows). I found myself poking around in vain like he did, and ultimately having to google how to do things in Win8. Even though I dislike Windows, I consider myself an above-average user, and I was lost. I can only imagine how frustrating it will be for the rank and file.

Yes, Microsoft can add tutorial videos that play when a user logs in the first time, but that’s still a failure. Memorizing gestures and having to perform them with a mouse on a large screen is just bad UI design. Think of the headaches this will cause for IT departments who might deploy it to hundreds or thousands (or tens of thousands) of corporate users, virtually all of whom will be as lost as I was. The training expense will be considerable.

[Walter Soyka] “Like FCPX, Metro requires retraining, though I don’t think that it requires thinking different to the degree that FCPX does. Also like FCPX, I think that some people will find they actually prefer Metro after getting used to it, and I’d suspect that you’ll have go pry the Start button from the cold, dead hands of others.”

FCPX requires retraining for veteran NLE users, but it is reportedly a very quick uptake for novices. That’s the big difference between FCPX’s UI and Win8’s UI- you can sit down with no instruction and stumble though FCPX. In Win8 you’ll reach dead ends in the UI that you cannot escape without a secret-handshake gesture.

[Walter Soyka] “There are a few cool things to like about Metro. It’s clean and uncluttered with very little chrome, and a big emphasis on design, layout and large type to convey information instead of dozens of on-screen widgets, icons, and doodads. It’s eminently touchable, but still reasonably keyboard-friendly with instant search.”

Metro is nice looking, and I like the design language. It is clearly designed for touch first, and even then you need to know the secret-handshake gestures to navigate. Gestures are a great option for power users, but for the vast majority of users, on-screen UI indications of what can be done is the only way they will know what they can do to navigate. How many iPad users do you think know about and use the gesture to swipe between apps? How many do you think know about double-tapping the home button to switch apps?

Microsoft saw what was happening in the market with iPad sales and figured they needed to out-flank Apple on the seemingly inevitable convergence of iOS and OS X. This is ironic, because Apple has doubled down on the desktop by accelerating the release tempo of OS X to match the annual cycle of iOS. The day may come when you can dock an iPad or iPhone with a screen, keyboard, and pointing device, and get a modified UI with windowing that resembles OS X, but I think that day is still several years away at minimum.

WARNING: ANALOGY/METAPHOR APPROACHING!

Microsoft is jumping off the high dive into a pool that hasn’t finished filling.

[Walter Soyka] “While it will create a lot of headlines, I don’t know if Metro will really big a big deal for most of us. Without a Metro-native NLE, Metro will be a bit like Launchpad. I won’t be spending a ton of time in it: the vast majority of my time on my workstation is spent in the apps I do my work in, not on the desktop or in the start menu. Whether I launch AE, Pr, or C4D from the start menu, the task bar, the dock, or a tile seems immaterial.”

I agree, for a dedicated workstation there is less poking around the OS. You get your handful of apps pinned to the task tray or Start screen and learn the secret handshakes. You’ll get situated and get on with your work. But can you really argue that Microsoft isn’t making things unnecessarily obtuse with the hidden UI in Win8? If the premise of this thread is that Win8 will tank worse than Vista, I’ll buy that. Unless Microsoft makes some significant adjustments to the UI before launch (and they could), I think they will have a very upset user base on their hands.

Best,
Andy

Some contents or functionalities here are not available due to your cookie preferences!

This happens because the functionality/content marked as “Google Youtube” uses cookies that you choosed to keep disabled. In order to view this content or use this functionality, please enable cookies: click here to open your cookie preferences.

[Joseph W. bourke]

This really leaves me scratching my head. I purchased a dual quad PC a couple of years ago, loaded with Vista Business 64-bit. I was really dreading all of the problems I was going to have, given the bad press that Vista got from many users.

Guess what? I’m still running Vista – doing various upgrades, etc., and I have yet to have a single problem with the OS. I’m running the CS5.5 Master Collection, 3DS Max 2011, Terragen 2, and several other demanding apps – I don’t get what all the complaining was about. Of course, as we always say…”Your system may vary…contents may settle during shipping…etc.”

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com