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OT: Why haven’t HD post gear prices kept pace with HD acquistion?
In specing out an HD setup, it seems odd that cameras – both hdv and the hvx – are relatively affordable, yet monitoring and decks seem disporportionately high. Around the same time the dv revolution hit, vx2k, pd-150, etc., so did the dsr-11, and the pvm monitor series was also an affordable option. Is there just a lag in monitor and deck prices, will they catch up, or is the technology itself still just too expensive to deliver at that price point? Seems to me that if an AJ-1400 cost a third as much, they’d be selling more than three times as many, thus making more money. Likewise with monitors. Any guesses as to when prices – and options – will become more accessible to solo operators?
G5 Quad Core, 4.5 MB RAM, Dual Dell 1905FP’s, KRK RP-5’s, DSR-11, FC Studio 5.1.2 OSX 10.4.8
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8 Replies
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[StuS57] “Seems to me that if an AJ-1400 cost a third as much, they’d be selling more than three times as many, thus making more money.”
the 1400 IS affordable. Compare that with HDCAM and HDCAMSR and see how affordable $25,000 is. I purchased the 1200A when it was $32,000 for all the cards and inputs and I own a very small operation.
As for Monitoring, look at the Panasonic 1700W and 2600W LCD displays or their Pro Plasma lines. Again, VERY affordable.
If you want to work in High Definition, you have to be willing to invest in the equipment and technology. You can set up a full HD system in your house for $50,000 or less. That’s incredibly affordable in my book.
I could not even afford the 1200A really when I purchased it but I made a decision that full HD was where I needed to be. Now HD is pretty much all we do and we’ve gone from mostly corporate gigs to almost exclusively broadcast. You have the make a decision for yourself whether or not you want to invest in the HD gear necessary to perform HD Post.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Food Network’s “Good Eats”
HD Editorial for “Assignment Earth”“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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[StuS57] “Seems to me that if an AJ-1400 cost a third as much, they’d be selling more than three times as many, thus making more money”
[StuS57] ” will they catch up, or is the technology itself still just too expensive to deliver at that price point?”
Panasonic told us in the early development stage of the HVX200 that the reason they could do what they did was with P2 there are no heads (HD heads) in the camera. The HD head drum assembly costs them something like $13,000.00 to manufacture ( I think that is varicam). The AJ-1400 has such a hi def head system for writing to tape. HDV decks in comparison are cheap to make because of the highly compressed data stream and mini dv style construction. The AJ-1400 is a big improvement over the 1200 as it has the HDSDI and firewire built in, hence a big cost reduction over the previous model. It seems Panny is trying to be very realistic with their pricing.
[StuS57] “and the pvm monitor series was also an affordable option. Is there just a lag in monitor and deck prices, will they catch up, or is the technology itself still just too expensive to deliver at that price point?”
As you know Sony has dropped it’s production of SSM and PVM lines of crt monitors in favor of pursueing the LCD technology. Sony CRT HD monitors are unlikely to come down in cost as they are made soley for a narrow market base although the HD input cards have finally come down (from $4200.00 to $1500.00) Panasonic is offering some great HD monitoring solutions with their LCD monitors at very compeditive prices. LCD technology is constantly improving.
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[Rennie] “Panasonic told us in the early development stage of the HVX200 that the reason they could do what they did was with P2 there are no heads (HD heads) in the camera. The HD head drum assembly costs them something like $13,000.00 to manufacture ( I think that is varicam).”
[walter biscardi] “the 1400 IS affordable. Compare that with HDCAM and HDCAMSR and see how affordable $25,000 is. I purchased the 1200A when it was $32,000 for all the cards and inputs and I own a very small operation.
I guess it’s all relative. For me, affordable right now is defined as – can I reasonably recoup the cost of this gear on what this project pays, and right now, on this particular project, I can’t. Further, I can’t really speculate as to whether it will be recouped in the long haul with other projects right now. I do, however, see your point, and Rennie’s explanation makes the price point clearer.
[walter biscardi] “As for Monitoring, look at the Panasonic 1700W and 2600W LCD displays or their Pro Plasma lines. Again, VERY affordable.”
I thought you didn’t recommend this for color correcting, or did I misread some of your earlier posts? I know you like it for a client monitor, but I have no need of a client monitor, don’t have clients in for edits, home studio. My hope is that the 1700w is acceptible for basic color correction – getting a fairly close approximation of what my image looks like – what say you, Walter?
G5 Quad Core, 4.5 MB RAM, Dual Dell 1905FP’s, KRK RP-5’s, DSR-11, FC Studio 5.1.2 OSX 10.4.8
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[StuS57] “[walter biscardi] “As for Monitoring, look at the Panasonic 1700W and 2600W LCD displays or their Pro Plasma lines. Again, VERY affordable.””
These two LCD’s are the most reasonably priced professional LCD’s you can use for HD editing and yes, you can color correct with them. Even the Panny Pro Plasmas will give you very very good color reproduction and they start around $1,200 or something like that for the 37″ model.
Are they as good as a Sony PVM20L5/1 or the $16,000 – $30,000 Pro HD LCD’s? No, but they’re as good as you’re going to get for that price. CRT’s are dead and when I need to replace my PVM monitors, right now I’d be looking at the Panny 1700/2600W.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Food Network’s “Good Eats”
HD Editorial for “Assignment Earth”“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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[StuS57] “In specing out an HD setup, it seems odd that cameras – both hdv and the hvx – are relatively affordable, yet monitoring and decks seem disporportionately high.”
the deck are in relationship to the devices that use the tape needed for them, and they tend to cost about the same as the cameras that need them. My NLE costs have dropped to 1/10th of what it was 5 years ago and I can get a a good “real” HD monitor for $3500 usd. But then broadcast displays have always been expensive.
As for HDV -it is a consumer format, and the tools are priced accordingly, most broadcasters do not accept HDV as an acquisition format and no one takes it for deliverables.
[StuS57] “Seems to me that if an AJ-1400 cost a third as much,” Funny the 1400 is 1/3 less than the 3 year old deck it replaced, with more functionality, I call that a bargain.
gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows -
[gary adcock] “Funny the 1400 is 1/3 less than the 3 year old deck it replaced, with more functionality, I call that a bargain.”
Don’t remind me. 🙂
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Food Network’s “Good Eats”
HD Editorial for “Assignment Earth”“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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Broadcasters will accept HDV, especially when they don’t know what format you shoot. A recent program I worked on was all shot on the Canon XL H1 and two broadcasters that tech checked it thought it was HDCam.
Putting everything into perspective, the cost of editing and onlining standard def 10 years ago was much higher than HD today. So not only has quality improved but costs have come down. An HDV project today is costing half as much as a digi beta SD project a decade ago.
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[Michael G] “Broadcasters will accept HDV, especially when they don’t know what format you shoot.”
Just not as an HD Master format. You have to be VERY careful when dealing with broadcasters and “fooling” them into not knowing what you’ve shot. If that’s acceptable to you and your clients, fine. But I certainly would not want to jeapordize both of my broadcast contracts by running something by the networks that they weren’t aware of.
[Michael G] “Putting everything into perspective, the cost of editing and onlining standard def 10 years ago was much higher than HD today. So not only has quality improved but costs have come down. An HDV project today is costing half as much as a digi beta SD project a decade ago.”
Absolutely true. DigiBeta decks were in the $40,000 – $65,000 range at one time and you can outfit an uncompressed HD suite for the same price.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Food Network’s “Good Eats”
HD Editorial for “Assignment Earth”“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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