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OT Sony sells Vegas?
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[Herb Sevush] “Tim, we are going to disagree about this for eternity aren’t we. Oh well, let’s proceed.
[Tim Wilson] “People had 3 months to see what X was about”
Other than the few hundred folks in attendance at the nab event all the rest of us heard were rumors, and of all the rumors, none of us heard that Apple would be releasing a program that A) couldn’t open FCP7 files under any circumstances B) was missing a host of essential features for many workflows and C) was discontinuing all sales of FCP7 on the day of X’s release.
“I’d parse that argument as essentially this…
THIS (insert topic) is what I currently have developed expertise about.
If you devalue my EXPERTISE, you devalue me. Whatever else you do – don’t devalue my expertise, because that means that going forward, I have to complete not on what I have already learned – but what I have to learn anew, and how fast I can learn it.
THAT, IMO is what actually pissed (and is still pissing people off) about the 2011 X introduction today.
And as I have long argued, conserving knowledge about what has worked well in the past is always valid, UNLESS there there turns out to be significant new advantages to be gained by adapting to a new way of thinking.
If you want to play the traditional games as well as you can, have fun. But if you want to be relevant playing the games that evolve going forward – NOT changing is going to be the larger mistake. I’m more convinced of that today than ever.
Play out the old game. Or learn and participate in the new one.
No right answer – no wrong one.
Just the game best for you.
But it’s a hoot that 5 years on, we’re still embroiled in this and folks are still using FCP Legacy 5 years on.I just had a business acquaintance send me some FCP 7 screen caps to describe a problem he wanted help with – and it was so weird going back visually into that world. Kinda seemed like looking at my childhood photos peppered with boxy, gas-guzzling cars.
New signature under construction and coming soon. Please stand by…
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[Bill Davis] “I’d parse that argument as essentially this…
THIS (insert topic) is what I currently have developed expertise about.
If you devalue my EXPERTISE, you devalue me. Whatever else you do – don’t devalue my expertise, because that means that going forward, I have to complete not on what I have already learned – but what I have to learn anew, and how fast I can learn it.
THAT, IMO is what actually pissed (and is still pissing people off) about the 2011 X introduction today.
And as I have long argued, conserving knowledge about what has worked well in the past is always valid, UNLESS there there turns out to be significant new advantages to be gained by adapting to a new way of thinking.”
I’m pretty sure that’s NOT it.
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All true David, but it’s also true that PPro still had a huge stigma attached to the name at the very moment that FCP7 was EOL’d. I actually had two editors get angry with me for even suggesting that they try Premiere Pro as a possible replacement for FCP7 at the time. Ironically, they’re both now PPro users after having decided that Avid didn’t suit the way they preferred to work… go figure. I could see purchasing FCP7 more for the installed user base and the halo effect, than the actual technology.
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[Shawn Miller] “All true David, but it’s also true that PPro still had a huge stigma attached to the name at the very moment that FCP7 was EOL’d. I actually had two editors get angry with me for even suggesting that they try Premiere Pro as a possible replacement for FCP7 at the time.”
It’s pretty crazy to think that Premiere had been crapped/seen as an ‘also ran’ for nearly 25yrs before it finally started being taken seriously on higher profile projects. I used Premiere 6.5 in the late 90’s/early 00’s and even in the no/low budget world you would get ignore unless you had FCP (or magically had access to an Avid). A big reason I moved from Windows and Premiere to FCP and a Mac is because I couldn’t find any work with Premiere.
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[Shawn Miller] ” I could see purchasing FCP7 more for the installed user base and the halo effect, than the actual technology.”
We can argue whether it was state of the art in 2011 (which I’m obviously not convinced it entirely was, except in the most literal sense of the word), but state of the art anymore? Can you even run it on today’s OS? I don’t know. Just asking. I’m not sure why anyone would buy it today.
WHICH YOU CAN. BUY FCP 7 TODAY AND HAVE IT SUNDAY WITH FREE SHIPPING. Want it tomorrow? It’s yours for $8.99 shipping.
Please please please, can we lay that to rest already? The fact that Apple doesn’t sell it doesn’t mean you can’t buy it. Want it? BUY IT NOW.
Heck, get it gift-wrapped for $3.49. A bargain for a box that big.
[Steve Connor] (quoting Bill) “And as I have long argued, conserving knowledge about what has worked well in the past is always valid, UNLESS there there turns out to be significant new advantages to be gained by adapting to a new way of thinking.””
As enthusiastic as I’ve been about X, I don’t think it’s even a little self-evident that there are NECESSARILY advantages to adapting to it, or indeed that X NECESSARILY represents new thinking.
I also think that expertise and the craftsmanship that can only come with experience have a unique and irreplaceable value, no matter how much shiny new thinking blooms around it.
But I ESPECIALLY vigorously disagree with the contention that “Other than the few hundred folks in attendance at the nab event all the rest of us heard were rumors.” That presentation was on YouTube, here in the COW, a bunch of blogs, and who all knows where else. A speedy glance at the MANY iterations on YouTube suggests tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of views in those three months. That information was as widely disseminated as any news to EVER come out of NAB. Arguably the most-widely disseminated news EVER to come out of NAB.
Let me note that I was as quick as anyone to argue that the paint wasn’t fully dry on X. Even Apple admitted that. If it was me, I’d have at least had hired Wes Plate or Phil Hodgetts to whip me a project importer… but as a jillion people pointed out before me, it’s not like 7 stopped working.
For most of the editing world, ie, everyone using everything else, X represents neither disruption nor innovation. It simply doesn’t factor in.
And as noted earlier, you can buy FCP 7 today, have it tomorrow, for about half the price it cost in 2011.
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[Steve Connor] “I’m pretty sure that’s NOT it.”
Well, thanks so much for articulating your reasoning behind the opinion so we can all likewise evaluate your thought process.
(insert sardonic emoji here)
New signature under construction and coming soon. Please stand by…
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[Andrew Kimery] ” A big reason I moved from Windows and Premiere to FCP and a Mac is because I couldn’t find any work with Premiere.”
Unlike me, you actually work for a living, so I’ll ask you. Is it now easier to find a job in LA with Premiere than X?
I’m sure that this is a regional thing, and Hollywood is its own thing, but I know that Bob Zelin has reported that Orlando is virtually an all-Premiere town. Not even Avid is worth as much there anymore.
So while Avid obvs has some value where you are, what’s the balance of work with Premiere vs X for you?
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[Bill Davis] “If you devalue my EXPERTISE, you devalue me. Whatever else you do – don’t devalue my expertise, because that means that going forward, I have to complete not on what I have already learned – but what I have to learn anew, and how fast I can learn it.
“That was certainly part of it, but certainly not all of it (or even most of it, IMO). When OS X first came out it was bare bones and Apple kept OS 9 around and once OS 9 went away there was OS 9 compatibility w/in OS X for years. If Apple had dropped OS 9 cold turkey there would have been hell to pay. When iMovie ’08 dropped, customers weren’t pissed because their home movie editing expertise had been devalued, they were pissed because the new version of iMovie had far few features than the existing version of iMovie (and Apple started giving the old version of iMovie away for free as a way to stem the blow back).
With the X launch, if you add up all the parts such as the cold turkey approach to pulling FCP 7 (and most of rest of the suite), the lack of features in X, the inability to go from 7 to X, the lack of a trial version, and the fundamental changes in X you get the nasty fur ball that was the launch of X. The EOLing and removal from the Mac App store of Aperture, by comparison, went smoothly. Was there grumbling? Yes. Was there hurt feelings? Sure. Did the user base go ballistic? Nope. Is anyone going to still be talking about the exact day it happened 5yrs down the road? I highly doubt it.
[Tim Wilson] “But I ESPECIALLY vigorously disagree with the contention that “Other than the few hundred folks in attendance at the nab event all the rest of us heard were rumors.” “
It’s the information that *wasn’t* in the NAB presentation that became the bomb though, Tim. The lack of some pretty standard features at launch, the lack of support for FCP projects, and lack of info that the FCP suite (plus Final Cut Server) would be pulled from store shelves the moment X was launched. Adjust any one of those three things and the X launch goes a lot smoother. It wasn’t just one thing, it was the culmination of many things.
Even Adobe going fully subscription (which obviously pissed a lot of people off) would’ve gone worse if they yanked CS6 from the store the moment they went CC only. When Avid shifted it’s business model starting with MC 8, if you bought an MC 8 license it also worked with MC 6 and MC 7. Everyone seemed to look at the X launch and said, “Well, that went poorly” and has tried to avoid that experience. Even Apple.
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[Tim Wilson] ” Is it now easier to find a job in LA with Premiere than X?”
While I have no official polling results, I can assure you, finding knowlegable Premiere editors is much, much easier here than finding knowledgable FCPX editors, . And, for those of you who think experience and expertise are overvalued, they certainly aren’t considered so in the top markets, such as LA.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist & Workflow Consultant
David Weiss Productions
Los AngelesDavid is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.
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[Bill Davis] “[Steve Connor] “I’m pretty sure that’s NOT it.”
Well, thanks so much for articulating your reasoning behind the opinion so we can all likewise evaluate your thought process.
(insert sardonic emoji here)”
I was in the middle of expanding on my reasoning when Andrew did it for me.
Exactly what he said 🙂
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