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Activity Forums Creative Community Conversations Orlando Post Pros’ NAB Recap

  • Brian Seegmiller

    June 10, 2017 at 4:15 am

    [Andrew Kimery] “Every week I see job ads posted on Staff Me Up, Film and TV Pro, Media Match, various FB groups, Craigslist, etc., from small and medium sized businesses across the US looking for editors that know Premiere Pro.

    The ones I see mention PP, but also mention knowing FCP X is a plus

    Andy PattersonAdobe updates since the CC have been mediocre. I would agree that Adobe should focus on creating a good product but they still have bugs form over a year ago. Adobe is not offering a superior product anymore over the competition.

    But it has a great titler that can create logos. Just kidding Andy.

  • Andy Patterson

    June 10, 2017 at 4:42 am

    [Brian Seegmiller] “But it has a great titler that can create logos. Just kidding Andy.”

    Premiere Pro’s titling tools are good. Rather than create a canned effects generator Adobe should have fixed all the bugs. Having said that FCPX has bugs as well. So does DR 14 in the beta state. No NLE is perfect but Premiere used to have less bugs. Every CC release introduces new bugs. Most of them get fixed quick but some do not. When I only had a PC nothing looked like an option two years ago. No that I have a Mac and PC, DR and FCPX might prove to be a viable alternative.

  • Andrew Kimery

    June 10, 2017 at 8:09 am

    [andy patterson] “I was not interested in DR five years ago. If you watch the video other people mention DR 14 is a game changer and the price for the paid version has dropped. You forgot to mention that. “

    I think I started with DR at version 9 and people have been saying DR is a game changer for the past 3 or 4 years. Each year people praise the updates to it’s NLE functionality, but then the tone changes to “the updates are great but…” When it actually starts changing the game I’ll believe it is a game changer. I didn’t mention the price drop because the conversation keeps focusing on lowering prices and free is a lot lower than $299.

    [andy patterson] “What I am stating is Adobe wants to cater exclusively to the higher end editors like Avid once did. “

    if Adobe is trying to carter exclusively to the high end they are failing miserably. First off, they aren’t charging nearly enough ($50/mo to Avid only gets you MC where as $50/mo to Adobe gets you everything). Secondly, they pretty much failed to secure the vacated inroads FCP Legend made into the high end. I’d guess Avid owns more of the high end now than it has in years as places that used to use FCP Legend opted to switch to Avid instead of X or PPro. Finally, they have YouTubers like Freddie Wong talking at their events and waste their time on down market features like the Social Media Publishing tool…

    One of the things Adobe has done a solid job of though is hoovering up a lot of the mid market and lower market that used to be dominated by FCP Legend.

    [andy patterson] “You are totally proving my point. I never stated a blogger would spend $1800.00 on the CS Production Premium. “

    You keep saying things like [andy patterson] “There was a time when Adobe cared about the little guy.” and I’m just trying to figure out when that time was and what Adobe product you keep alluding to. It’s certainly not the Creative Suite that you wish Adobe would return too.

    [andy patterson] “What I stated is that for the web blogger wanting a little more than what iMovie offers Adobe has opted not to compete with BMD or FCPX.”

    Adobe Premiere Elements is $99 (perpetual license). $149 for Premiere Elements and Photoshop Elements combo (I might have just answered my previous question for you). Of course that’s still not as good as free DR.

    [andy patterson] “I never stated there are only YouTubers and post production house. Never did I make that statement. “

    I never said you made that statement. I said that you keep focusing on two extremes (hobbyist YouTubers/vloggers and post houses). For example:

    [andy patterson] “I have already stated for a post production house $49.99 is not expensive… In fact I stated for the average blogger $49.99 is expensive.

    I doubt the average blogger needs AE while on the other hand Motion and FCPX can offer a lot for the price… To say $49.99 is not to expensive for a post production house is a non issues…”

    [andy patterson] “As I have stated $49.99 is not a lot of money for a post production house but for a web blogger it is”

    [andy patterson] “I am saying many YouTubers will opt for FCPX or DR because of the costly rental paradigm when compared to Premiere Pro. No one is saying that for a post production house $50.00 a month is to expensive. “

    [andy patterson] “There are a lot of Youtubers that use Macs that have ditched Premiere Pro in favor of FCPX… I admit a post production house is not going to be as concerned about the cost as opposed to workflow paradigms.

  • Oliver Peters

    June 10, 2017 at 12:58 pm

    [andy patterson] “Are you suggestion YouTube bloggers should invest in a Flame system?
    I have already stated for a post production house $49.99 is not expensive. I posted that in plain English. “

    Yes and I posted in plain English that I was talking about pro users. Don’t play silly semantic games.

    [andy patterson] “My point is BMD design sees the value in software.”

    Yes and no. Their software is designed for the sole reason of selling hardware. Otherwise, you could send Resolve’s video out through an AJA i/o device or card or even full screen to an external desktop as video over HDMI without any device. You can do both of those things with Premiere Pro and FCPX.

    – Oliver

    Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
    Orlando, FL
    http://www.oliverpeters.com

  • Oliver Peters

    June 10, 2017 at 1:05 pm

    [andy patterson] “Adobe updates since the CC have been mediocre. I would agree that Adobe should focus on creating a good product but they still have bugs form over a year ago. Adobe is not offering a superior product anymore over the competition. “

    Hmm… I would completely disagree. I work at plenty of shops that shifted to Premiere precisely because of where the app is today or was a couple of years ago after CC. In the state it was in during CS, they might have been AE customers, but would have never considered Premiere over the competition. Even given FCPX. Had Premiere not continued to address their needs, those costumers would have (and many did) shifted back to Avid.

    FWIW – no NLE manufacturer is offering a superior product. They are all solid and all have their strengths and weaknesses, pros and cons. It really just depends on your needs and which one addresses them in the best fashion.

    [andy patterson] “Adobe has decide those customers can use DR, FCPX, Vegas Video or Pinnacle Studio.”

    One more thing – Aren’t you failing to follow through to the conclusions of your own argument? Vbloggers and hobbyists already have a powerful free tool in Resolve. Maybe BMD gets a camera sale out of it, maybe they don’t. This customer probably doesn’t need i/o, so BMD gets nothing out of it other than good will.

    Now look at Adobe. Let’s say they cut their prices 50% – so $25/mo. for CC, $10/mo. for Premiere individually, etc. This still won’t attract the free users, who in your thoughts already have a superior product. So the people who are comfortable in paying Adobe’s current rates, now only pay half, and Adobe loses 50% of their revenue stream. And don’t tell me Adobe still makes money, because neither of us have the info to know that.

    – Oliver

    Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
    Orlando, FL
    http://www.oliverpeters.com

  • Andy Patterson

    June 10, 2017 at 2:18 pm

    [Andrew Kimery] ” I didn’t mention the price drop because the conversation keeps focusing on lowering prices and free is a lot lower than $299.”

    Price is important to the hobbyists. For that market FCPX and DR might seem to be a better option.

    [Andrew Kimery] “I think I started with DR at version 9 and people have been saying DR is a game changer for the past 3 or 4 years. Each year people praise the updates to it’s NLE functionality, but then the tone changes to “the updates are great but…” When it actually starts changing the game I’ll believe it is a game changer.”

    Fairlight is nice but I like DR’s marker system better than Premiere Pro. I had suggested a feature request to Adobe but BMD did it.

    [Andrew Kimery] “Secondly, they pretty much failed to secure the vacated inroads FCP Legend made into the high end.”

    Adobe wants the high-end market. I did not say they are the high-end market.

    [Andrew Kimery] “I’d guess Avid owns more of the high end now than it has in years as places that used to use FCP Legend opted to switch to Avid instead of X or PPro.”

    You keep responding with strawmans. I don’t doubt Avid is top dog but how is this relevant to the fact the Adobe is not worried about the little guy? That is what my comments are about. Can you please explain why the CC would be a better option for a blogger or hobbiest than the DR?

    [Andrew Kimery] “Finally, they have YouTubers like Freddie Wong talking at their events and waste their time on down market features like the Social Media Publishing tool…”

    Of course some Youtubers will be using the CC. What is your point? My point is for some companies their prices are dropping. Will Google Docs make MS Office Obsolete? Probably not. Can some people get by with Google Docs. Probably.

    [Andrew Kimery] “One of the things Adobe has done a solid job of though is hoovering up a lot of the mid market and lower market that used to be dominated by FCP Legend.”

    I think FCPX is what made people switch. If FCP 8 was here today who knows what would have happened?

    I stand by all my statement you decided to quote. For a post production house that has clients every day $49.99 is is a non issues. On the flip side the bloggers who have stopped the CC subscription always mention FCPX is less expensive and does the job. Plus some think it is more stable than Premiere Pro and performs better than Premiere Pro. I don’t doubt FCPX might work better on a laptop than Premiere Pro.

  • Andy Patterson

    June 10, 2017 at 3:04 pm

    [Oliver Peters] “[andy patterson] “Adobe updates since the CC have been mediocre. I would agree that Adobe should focus on creating a good product but they still have bugs form over a year ago. Adobe is not offering a superior product anymore over the competition. ”

    Hmm… I would completely disagree. I work at plenty of shops that shifted to Premiere precisely because of where the app is today or was a couple of years ago after CC. In the state it was in during CS, they might have been AE customers, but would have never considered Premiere over the competition. Even given FCPX. Had Premiere not continued to address their needs, those costumers would have (and many did) shifted back to Avid.”

    I am not saying Premiere Pro has not gotten updates. I am saying the last couple of years the updates were not that great and we keep getting bugs with each update that should have been caught by Adobe. Keep in mind 64 bit, CUDA and adding Audition go back to the CS days. Adobe Anywhere seems cool for certain users but that was implemented over two years ago. Having said that what do you think is the biggest improvement in the last 2 years that made people switch? I don’t doubt there might be something but I can easily say CS 4.0 to CS 5.0 was a huge update. To much to list.

    [Oliver Peters] “FWIW – no NLE manufacturer is offering a superior product.”

    Premiere Pro is buggier now days. I used to think Premiere Pro was awesome but the past couple of years have been a love hate situation. I see minor updates at the cost of more bugs. I never made videos about Premiere Pro bugs in CS days.

    [Oliver Peters] “One more thing – Aren’t you failing to follow through to the conclusions of your own argument? Vbloggers and hobbyists already have a powerful free tool in Resolve.”

    My conclusion? Have you actually read any of my comments? I have already stated Adobe is not worried about the bloggers. I have also stated Apple and BMD design are trying to get that market. Or at the very least their products probably appeal to that market more than the CC subscription model. Keep in mind many CS users held on to CS 6 for as long as they could. The majority of people didn’t say the CC is the best thing since sliced bread. In fact most people did not like it for a multitude of reasons. I bought CS 5.5 in 2011 and did not join the CC until 2014. There were enough features that I wanted by that time. As I stated I see more bugs and I pay for updates even if I don’t think they are useful for my needs. That was not the case with the CS paradigm. As sated I pay more and get less with the CC. I admit I get more bugs now but that is not a good thing.

    [Oliver Peters] “Now look at Adobe. Let’s say they cut their prices 50% – so $25/mo. for CC, $10/mo. for Premiere individually, etc. This still won’t attract the free users, who in your thoughts already have a superior product”

    They don’t need a free product. They need something more affordable. Why do you think they have student pricing? Also if the free version of DR is buggier than Premiere Pro people might opt for Premiere Pro, AE and Audition for $9.99.

    [Oliver Peters] “So the people who are comfortable in paying Adobe’s current rates, now only pay half, and Adobe loses 50% of their revenue stream. And don’t tell me Adobe still makes money, because neither of us have the info to know that.”

    If they lower the price or even offer Premiere Pro, AE and Audition for $9.99 they may increase the CC subscription by 300%. Having said that we cannot say what the future holds at this point in time. We can only speculate.

  • Mark Raudonis

    June 10, 2017 at 3:10 pm

    Thanks for posting this, Oliver.

    This panel was a great round up of not only NAB, but the state of the industry in general.

    Should be required viewing for anyone who didn’t attend NAB.

  • Oliver Peters

    June 10, 2017 at 3:42 pm

    [andy patterson] “If they lower the price or even offer Premiere Pro, AE and Audition for $9.99 they may increase the CC subscription by 300%.”

    That’s the free market argument. In principle, I agree with that, however, it works best when their aren’t other factors. Unfortuantely that often isn’t the case and the result is often not an increase. It certainly hasn’t worked for many others, like Avid, for example. But yes, it’s all just speculation.

    Oliver

    Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
    Orlando, FL
    http://www.oliverpeters.com

  • Ricardo Marty

    June 10, 2017 at 3:46 pm

    Like adobe in the past DR is in probably every suite in the world. If it starts offering avid like or better functionalities many might just be tempted. Who know it might even jump over adobe ibto the high-end market.

    Ricardo Marty

    p.s.

    Would like to know what makes quantel super high-end

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