on set p2 backup…

[John Fishback]

The Shotput P2 makes byte-to-byte verified copies. We’ve been using P2 Genie, but I believe that’s no longer supported. I just got Shotput P2, but haven’t used it yet. For backup, we use a G-Tech RAID 1 and every evening we back that up to another drive which later becomes the show archive. While traveling, the drives are caried by different people in different cases.

John

Dual 2.5 G5 4 gigs RAM OS 10.4.8 QT7.1.3
Dual Cinema 23 Radeon 9800
FCP Studio 5 (FCP5.1.4, DVDSP4.1.1, Comp2.3, STP1.1, Motion 2.1.2)
Huge U-320R 1TB Raid 3 firmware ENG15.BIN
ATTO UL4D driver 3.50
AJA IO driver 2.1 firmware v23-28
Pro Tools HD w 192 Digital, SYNC IO, Yamaha DM1000, Millennia Media HV-3C, Neuman U87s, Genelec Monitors, PrimaLT ISDN

[Dylan Reeve]

Be aware, copying a file to a RAID 1 device isn’t really making two copies of it. The drives can’t be used as standalone devices. While it is possible to remove one of the paired drives from the enclosure and use just one, the RAID set it then operating in a ‘damaged’ mode which is not a great idea at all.

Also, the other danger with RAID is that the data on the drives is inaccessible without the RAID controller. While unlikely, it is possible that the enclosure’s RAID controller dies, in which case you need to find an identical controller (sometimes even same firmware revision) to be able to read the data from the drive again. In many enterprise situations RAID controllers are always acquired in pairs, one for use and the other as a spare.

In my opinion, if you want two copies of the media, you should make two stand-alone copies. Something like ShotPut is ideal for that.

[Dave Neyman]

[Dylan Reeve] Be aware, copying a file to a RAID 1 device isn’t really making two copies of it. The drives can’t be used as standalone devices. While it is possible to remove one of the paired drives from the enclosure and use just one, the RAID set it then operating in a ‘damaged’ mode which is not a great idea at all.

It depends on the RAID. I have a Sans Digital RAID 1 system that makes a copy on each drive. I then have a single drive reader which allows me to access the data while the other drive is archived. It is not operating in ‘damaged’ mode.

[Dave Neyman]

Very smart John to separate the drives. I do the same. If ever we have to leave them in a vehicle I put them in different places in the event of a break in. When you consider that you may have 10 days worth of data on a 750 GB drive, it would be a HUGE loss if both drives disappeared.

[Dylan Reeve]

[Dave Neyman] “It depends on the RAID. I have a Sans Digital RAID 1 system that makes a copy on each drive. I then have a single drive reader which allows me to access the data while the other drive is archived. It is not operating in ‘damaged’ mode.”

If it’s a genuine RAID then I assume you need a special interface to mount it (couldn’t just stick it in the computer or a regular enclosure). And while the RAID controller might not be complaining when you’ve only got run disk mounted it is technically in a failure state if it’s running with only one device.

Also, if your controller/reader dies and you can’t get a replacement that the same then it’s possible the data is unrecoverable (or at least not easily recovered).

[Jeremy Garchow]

You can software raid a mirrored set in OSX. No controller necessary.

Jeremy

[Dylan Reeve]

[Jeremy Garchow] “You can software raid a mirrored set in OSX. No controller necessary.”

Indeed, a software mirror is less likely to leave you high and dry later on. I’m still not a fan of treating a RAID 1 set as two different copies, it’s really not how RAID is designed to be operated.

[John Fishback]

Dylan’s comment about RAID 1 made me realize I didn’t know how the G-Tech RAID 1 works so I emailed tech support. Here’s their reply,

“In the event that one drive fails all data is stored on the second drive and can be accessed through the G-Safe. If the actual G-Safe enclosure failed, these drives could be put into a usb enclosure or into a computer to read the data. Only the G-Safe box knows that the drive is a mirror. The drive will appear as any single drive if you put it into a computer or other device to read. Some devices, like Nas, use special formats on the drives, so you could have problems. The G-Safe is using a standard format that is accessible on any Mac with 10.4 or higher.”

John

MacPro 8-core 2.8GHz 8 GB RAM OS 10.5.4 QT7.5 Kona 3 Dual Cinema 23 ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT
ATTO ExpressSAS R30F RAID Adapter, PDE Enclosure with 8-drive 6TB RAID
24″ TV-Logic Monitor
Final Cut Studio 2 (up to date)

Pro Tools HD w SYNC IO, Yamaha DM1000, Millennia Media HV-3C, Neumann U87, Schoeps Mk41 mics, Genelec Monitors, PrimaLT ISDN

[Dave Neyman]

Thanks John for bringing this to light. I also did research on my system and found out the same thing. If one drive fails the other can be accessed by putting it in any enclosure and will be treated as any other drive. In my case I install my drives on trays that are then put in the raid 1 system. Once the data is mirrored on both drives, I archive one of the drives and put the other drive into a single drive reader to import the media into FCP and then put the quick time files on yet another drive. recently I had one drive go bad. I immediately went to the back up drive, made another copy of that, and then imported the media into FCP without a problem.

I stand by my comment that using a mirrored raid system is the best and most cost effective way to handle the P2 workflow.

[Paul Tremblay]

Does anyone have an idea where to get a replacement G-Safe enclosure? Mine was recently damaged in transit and will not power up. I am fairly certain, though, that the two drives are okay.