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On a deadline and stuck! AE color interpretation problem
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Ok I just did a test, to find out the answer to your last question. I rendered the clip from vegas timeline to both avi and quicktime uncompressed, and the rendered clips are virtually identical to the original.
THE PROBLEM ONLY HAPPENS WHEN USING AE.
FAITH GRANGER
Multi Award winning filmmaker
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http://www.deuceofspadesmovie.com
http://www.facebook.com/deuceofspades -
[Faith Granger] “Ok I just did a test, to find out the answer to your last question. I rendered the clip from vegas timeline to both avi and quicktime uncompressed, and the rendered clips are virtually identical to the original. THE PROBLEM ONLY HAPPENS WHEN USING AE.”
Uncompressed is not the same compressor as None, which Ae uses for its Lossless output module.
Uncompressed uses a YUV color model, but None uses an RGB color model. My theory is that your NLE is doing a different YUV/RGB conversion than Ae is, or is interpreting RGB sources (like you’ve been making from Ae) with different gamma and/or levels than YUV sources like your camera originals.
Can you retest, using the None compressor instead of the Uncompressed compressor?
Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive | RenderBreak [blog] | Profile [LinkedIn] -
Without breaking down her workflow, it sounds like her NLE and clips are RGB but where the final file is going it’s being converted to 709. IE, 0 becomes 16, 255 clipped to 235.
My problem is usually the opposite.
Johnny Cuevas, Editor
ThinkCK“I have not failed 700 times. I have succeeded in proving that those 700 ways will not work. When I have eliminated the ways that will not work, I will find the way that will work.”
—THOMAS EDISON on inventing the light bulb. -
walter, I am partially confused by your reply. You want me to re-render the clips in vegas using a different render method?
I checked the Vegas QUICKTIME “uncompressed” settings and under “video format” it is set to “None”, so it seems that when I did my previous test i already had a “none” setting? Am I correct? Please confirm.
I have also conducted new tests that revealed something new (and hopefully helpful):
I took the .jpg screengrab of original clip, (screengrab was captured with vegas and is exactly what vegas “sees”), imported it into Photoshop…Photoshop saw my .jpg screengrab exactly the same as vegas. And rendered it IDENTICAL to the vegas render, identical contrast as my original video clip. Yes I did mean to type “Photoshop”, that was phase ONE of test, Please read on….
So now I took it one step further. I imported the same Vegas generated screengrab of original clip into AE and rendered it out as a 5 second clip, using my identical render settings (quicktime jpg2000) used to initilly test the problem. The resulting clip is identical to the vegas screengrab and identical also to the original clip.
So AE and photoshop both are able to interpret the color of a still image the same way Vegas does, but AE is not able to do the same with video clips.
maybe this new info helps?
FAITH GRANGER
Multi Award winning filmmaker
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http://www.deuceofspadesmovie.com
http://www.facebook.com/deuceofspades -
Huhhhhhh… was that English??? LOLOL….
I just posted some new info that may be helpful, see my previous post I did some new tests… 🙂
FAITH GRANGER
Multi Award winning filmmaker
—————————–
http://www.deuceofspadesmovie.com
http://www.facebook.com/deuceofspades -
[Faith Granger] “I checked the Vegas QUICKTIME “uncompressed” settings and under “video format” it is set to “None”, so it seems that when I did my previous test i already had a “none” setting? Am I correct? Please confirm. “
Ok. Quicktime also has a compressor named “Uncompressed” — which is different than “None” — so I wanted to clarify. I do not use Vegas, so this is somewhat of a challenge.
This is certainly a vexing problem, and I understand your frustration. At the same time, I use Ae every day without suffering color shifts, so let’s see if we can figure this out.
If you render from Ae to a JPEG, then import the JPEG into Vegas, do you see this shift?
Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive | RenderBreak [blog] | Profile [LinkedIn] -
2 weeks into this frame rate ordeal and I am still STUCK. Sigh… Walter I am going to do your suggested jpg test in a minute and let you know outcome, but I wanted to post this in the meantime, it might be important:
IMPORTANT NOTE: I just realized that AE is giving me an error message when i first fire it up, and I should mention it here because I don’t know what it means, and could it affect the way the clips are imported (thus creating more contrast).
ERROR MESSAGE = “the following plug ins have failed to load: mediaCore\cineform\CFHD_AVI_importer.prm (and also it lists) mediaCore\cineform\CFHD_MOV_importer.prm”
I have consistently pressed OK and ignored it, and have been able to drag both avi or mov clips into my project without apparent problems, but now I am wondering whether I should not ignore it LOL. Could it be causing the contrast problem?
It is asking me to reinstall the plugins, how do I do that? Reinstall the entire CS5.5 Production Suite? Or??
FAITH GRANGER
Multi Award winning filmmaker
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http://www.deuceofspadesmovie.com
http://www.facebook.com/deuceofspades -
Also:
I did a new experiment: I opened the same original clip in Premiere, and it displayed the clip differently than AE did. The Premiere preview showed less contrast than AE, but it did show more contrast than Vegas. It somewhat split the difference, sort of. Since Premiere and AE are both adobe products, we can rule out vegas as being the sole culprit of the discrepancy of what i am seeing on my timeline in vegas, between the original clip and rendered AE version. Obviously, not even Premiere agrees with AE … (And yes, I am viewing everything on the same PC and same monitor with same settings.)Not sure any of above helps, but I thought it was worth mentioning 😉
FAITH GRANGER
Multi Award winning filmmaker
—————————–
http://www.deuceofspadesmovie.com
http://www.facebook.com/deuceofspades -
OK, Walter, I imported the original clip in AE and rendered it out as a JPG image sequence (I believe that is what You meant when you said to render it as a JPG?).
YES I still see the same contrast shift.
FAITH GRANGER
Multi Award winning filmmaker
—————————–
http://www.deuceofspadesmovie.com
http://www.facebook.com/deuceofspades -
About the error messages:
ERROR MESSAGE = “the following plug ins have failed to load: mediaCore\cineform\CFHD_AVI_importer.prm (and also it lists) mediaCore\cineform\CFHD_MOV_importer.prm”
I resolve this issue after intensively googling. Allas, although the error message is now gone, my contrast issue IS NOT. So that error message had nothing to do with it.
Sigh.
So kids, are you all giving up on me now????
FAITH GRANGER
Multi Award winning filmmaker
—————————–
http://www.deuceofspadesmovie.com
http://www.facebook.com/deuceofspades
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