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Oh Oh
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[Raymond Motion Pictures] “Why is Panasonic using an old technology card that requires a Raid chip on board each P2 card to handle the bit-rate?”
Probably for the same reason Sony is using a RAID chip on their SxS cards — because the underlying memory technology is just too slow on its own.
The ExpressCard technology allows for 2.5gbps transfer rate at the bus level, but the actual SxS cards are limited to 800mbps. Just like the PCMCIA bus is capable of 1 gbps data transfer rate, but the P2 cards max out at 640mbps.
A faster theoretical bus speed doesn’t translate into real-world performance gains (I mean, the PCMCIA bus is faster than the SxS cards). The underlying memory technology is the hangup; Panasonic RAIDS together SD cards, Sony probably RAIDS together the raw components, but either way there is no memory chip that runs at 800mbps or 640mbps; it has to be done by RAIDing.
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[Barry Green] “The ExpressCard technology allows for 2.5gbps transfer rate at the bus level, but the actual SxS cards are limited to 800mbps. Just like the PCMCIA bus is capable of 1 gbps data transfer rate, but the P2 cards max out at 640mbps.
A faster theoretical bus speed doesn’t translate into real-world performance gains (I mean, the PCMCIA bus is faster than the SxS cards). The underlying memory technology is the hangup; Panasonic RAIDS together SD cards, Sony probably RAIDS together the raw components, but either way there is no memory chip that runs at 800mbps or 640mbps; it has to be done by RAIDing.”
Yes, I see my mistake now – I agree, they must also be implementing a raid chip on their cards. The larger physical size of the P2 cards would seem to hold the advantage for larger future capacity. Yes?
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May I play engineer here for a moment?
Why not put the raid controller IN the camera, rather than ON the card?
Wouldn’t that get the cost of these cards closer to dirt?
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So then when we put the card into other devices like the computer, or into a P2 Store or a P2 Drive, where do we put the Raid Controller there? The LSI that does this has more than the one function of making it fast, it also controls the metadata, and recording sectors and such.
In addition the Memeory chips that are used are not off the shelf SD cards. These cards never see commerciality. When gleaning the memory for this application, zero-tolerence for error is the only acceptable level. We did reduce the cost of manufacture starting with the 16 GB cards. The memory is used but they no longer user the SD enclosure. Assembly just got a bit easier.
Oh and large flash memory prices just jumped up a bit. We are trying to bring the prices down but not at the expense of potential failure. Keep in mind that the price of the card goes down every time you use one.
Best,
Jan
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[Jan Crittenden Livingston] “So then when we put the card into other devices like the computer, or into a P2 Store or a P2 Drive, where do we put the Raid Controller there?”
Put the raid controller in the P2 Drive itself – the cards would be read as a set of drives, like any raid. You’d be up to 64gig cards before you know it!
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Does anyone here use an express card to PCMCIA, or other PCMCIA adapter reader ?
Vince
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[Raymond Motion Pictures] “Put the raid controller in the P2 Drive itself – the cards would be read as a set of drives, like any raid. You’d be up to 64gig cards before you know it!”
Two problems with this idea. The LSI that handles the raid does more that just the raid. It hadles traffic flow, it handles error checking, parity and metadata. Without it, you would have a mess on your hands.
Second, to put it into all of the other devices adds a cost to all of the other devices.
I believe it is best right where it is and yes we will be at 64s before you know it. The 32GBs were announced this week at IBC. 64GBs are right around the corner.
Best,
jan
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The only expresscard-to-PCMCIA adapter that will work with P2 is the DuelAdapter.
The only USB/firewire adapter that will work with P2 is the Panasonic PCD20 (or the earlier PCD10).
No other adapter will work. We’ve been down this road a thousand times… only the duel adapter, or the panasonic adapters, will work with P2 cards.
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Just a warning about the duel adapter, if you a Hp laptop owner like the dv9000 or higher series (newest line) your dual link adapter will not work. HP’s mother board reads it as express to express as opposed to express to pcimc. Dual link is working on a solution but nothing yet.
Cheers
Emre
http://www.productionpit.com
Boxx Tech PC, dual-dual AMD 2.0,4BG ram,Avidexpress HD w/Mojo,UVW-1800,DSR-25, Adobe production studio.“Creative cow is udder madness.”
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Wow, good call, that’s the model I own.
So I guess USB is the way to go…
Thanks a bunch.
Vince
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