Off Topic: Shooting to AVOID Echo

[Douglas Spotted eagle]

Blankets are great. Especially moving blankets that are placed 2″ to 4″ away from a wall, or in corners.
Use a hyper on a boom if possible. On the low-cost but very high quality side, the AT 4053 is my fave. Between the lav and the boom, you should have great options. Be sure to monitor, and if you can check the room in advance, do so with quality headphones. There are angles you can choose for the body so the lav picks up less (or more) of the room. Find those angles in advance.
The type of lav makes a huge difference. If the room is very boomy (sounds like it is) then I’d switch to a uni lav vs an omni lav. The AT899 is my fave in that regard. This will absolutely minimize boom in the room, but also runs a slight risk if you place the lav too high, as when talent turns their head, the mic may allow for a drop (or gain) in level.

Douglas Spotted Eagle
VASST
Aerial Camera/Instructor
Certified Sony Vegas Trainer

[Rick Mac]

Spot has given you some great advice. I would only add to put the blackets on the walls closest to the talent vs the other end of the room. Given the choice of a Lav or a shotgun I would go with the Lav.
My experience has been that unless you are able to position the shotgun fairly close to the talent it will hear more of the room than the lav. Directional lav’s can do wonders if you position them correctly and your talent does not turn his head away from the lav to far. Be sure that your lav does not rub against any clothing and it’s also a good idea to strain-relief the cable at the mic capsule end.
Monitor you audio at all times, and if you are using a wireless lav I pray it is not a cheap-o. Better to have a quality wired lav than a cheap wireless. With wireless you really do get what you pay for.

Good luck.

Regards, Rick.

Rick Mac
Director of Audio Production
TCT Network – Directv 377

[Janet Turner]

Thank you DSE and Rick for getting back to me. After I posted my question this morning, I ran off and checked out the room. It took me all day to do that and complete the rest of my errands so I am just now getting back to you. I can’t believe how bad traffic has gotten up here in Snohomish, Washington.

Anyhow, I have a decent wireless microphone and am happy with the sound. As far as a directional microphones, I have a Senneheiser 66 I believe it is called.

Getting back to the room. It could not be any worse. Dimensions are something like 24′ x 30′, lots of tall windows and tall plaster ceilings. I will be filming a 12′ x 8′ area in the back part of the room against the mirror which is in the center of the back wall. I cannot find any way to hang anything from the ceilings unless I plan to use sheets and tape them up. Even that will require bringing in a tall ladder and strong tape. I do not have any kind of stand to hang blankets on. I had thought about stacking two conference tables up on each side as close as possible to the talents and taping the blankets to the the top conference table. If I hear you correctly, I should plan on putting the blankets against the two side walls as opposed to close to the talent even if they are in the middle of the room. I like the idea of throwing some blankets on the floor out of camera range. Now I’ll have to wrangle blankets before next Tuesday.

DSE, are you talking about only putting the blankets in the corners no matter how far away they are from the talent. I do plan to go back to the room tomorrow with blankets, microphones and cameras in hand to experiment. What have I gotten myself into!

If you have any additional thoughts, I’m all ears! You guys are awesome.

Grasshopper

[Rick Mac]

Grasshopper,

The Senneheiser-66 is a shortshot. Not much reach. I have one at work and I can’t tell you how many times the guys in the field think they want to use it. Most of the time I end up having to pull a rabbit out the hat due to the mic hearing to much room. It has worked good for us a distance of 2-3 feet in a normal room. I would not even try it at all with a echo/reverberating room.

[Grasshopper] “DSE, are you talking about only putting the blankets in the corners no matter how far away they are from the talent. I do plan to go back to the room tomorrow with blankets, microphones and cameras in hand to experiment. What have I gotten myself into!”

I hope DSE stops back by to put his two cents in on this one. If you have enough blankits to totally isolate the talent that might be the ticket. If you do not, I would do as DSE suggested and hang your blankits a couple of feet from the wall. The reason for this is that the blankit soaks up way more sound this way. The sound has to pass thru on it’s way to the wall, then an air gap (think of this an an after burner), then back thru the blankit. If you mount it directly against the wall it is less effective.
Acoustics are a wonderful thing.

[Grasshopper] “I like the idea of throwing some blankets on the floor out of camera range.”

I like it to. Good idea. The floor has a lot of early reflections that can color the sound. This will give you a more focused sound.

[Grasshopper] “What have I gotten myself into!”

Don’t feel alone. We have all been there before and most likely will be again.

Sounds like you have things well in hand. Your ideas for handleing the situation are good. Just be sure to monitor that wireless real good. Trying to fix dropouts can ruin your day.

Regards, Rick.

Rick Mac
Director of Audio Production
TCT Network – Directv 377

[Janet Turner]

Rick –

Thank you for the heads up on the Senneheiser ME66. Since it was directional, I thought it might be a good idea to put the wireless on one channel and the ME66 on another one. It sounds like I was way off base with that idea.

You probably saw that I do not have any type of stands, etc. to hold blankets. I have been running around the house trying to solve the problem. What I finally came up with is that I am going to try to take along some ladders and put poles across them as high up as I can. I can then hang my blankets from those poles.

I’m with you on the sound. I missed the echo last time though I did hear all the street noises, etc. through my headset. This time I am going to use my nice earbuds with sound cancelling shooting headphones over the top of them. With that outfit on, I could not hear a fire truck if it was blaring behind me unless I picked it up in the microphone.

By the way, for those interested, I’m using DV Rack on the shoot and it was great to be able to go back over the footage when my talents made a mistake in doing their tai chi. They could easily correct their position and move on. Pretty awesome.

Rick – thank you for hanging in there with me. I have been unable to sleep the last couple of nights trying to figure out how to pull this off.

Till later – Grasshopper

[Rick Mac]

[Grasshopper] “I thought it might be a good idea to put the wireless on one channel and the ME66 on another one. It sounds like I was way off base with that idea.”

Your not off base. It’s still a good idea espically if you can get it in close. It might save you if you get an few hits on your wireless. But I would not make the shotgun my primary mic.

By the way, find your worst windows for street noise and throw a few blankits if you have them.

Let us know how the shoot goes. Good luck.

Regards, Rick.

Rick Mac
Director of Audio Production
TCT Network – Directv 377

[Janet Turner]

Rick –

Thank you for all the advice. I think I will take both microphones. Unfortunately, I do not have a boom mike but I can set up the ME66 pretty close to the talent.

I wish I could get the blankets on the windows. They are BIG and very high up. If all else fails, I’ll just have the talent come to my place and do a voice over but I would really rather not have to do that.

I’ll let you know how the shoot went. I appreciate your interest.

Grasshopper

[Douglas Spotted eagle]

Ric answered it well, better than I would
Blankets as close to talent as possible but out of frame.
One really great tool for windows if you don’t have anythign else…
Heavy maxi-pads with the peel-off strip. Drummers use them to mute drums, too. Wad up Kleenex and tape to panes of glass that really rattle or buzz. A couple blankets set apart by at least 6″ will really work well too.
Get mics close.
Turn off all A/C in the room if possible.
Stand in room, eyes closed, and listen to the room with no one in there. that’ll help find the bad spots.

Douglas Spotted Eagle
VASST
Aerial Camera/Instructor
Certified Sony Vegas Trainer

[Janet Turner]

DSE –

Thank you for the additional input. I bet those maxi-pads look pretty strange to folks passing on the street! I can see how they would work though. The shoot is Tuesday and I have printed out all your responses so I have them to refer to as I set things up. I’ll post back on the end result.

Grasshopper