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Normal / Full Range
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I’m not saying you should monitor normally scaled – you should set it to the one that is correct for your display and configuration – if it creates problems then it’s probably not correct. You should send color bars to external scopes and the display to be sure that the signal is as expected, but once it is correctly set up, you should get consistent “what you see is what you get” results.
KC
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I have no problems with the normal monitoring workflow, but I cant see why you guys are using it. Like I say, if you have a grading monitor (it doesnt matter what kind) you should be able to view full range. A regular TV can show black levels under 16. If I understand things correct, everyone working with normal monitoring limit their work. Flame/Smoke/Avid/AF can read full range, so why should we monitor normal range. And the method of monitoring normal range for then to render full range is completely something I dont understand, as it leaves you with no control. What you see is not what you get, working that way.
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Because broadcasters (at least here in states) will either reject content delivered in full range, or will clip it on broadcast. Producing crushed blacks and clipped highlights.
Online Editor | Colorist | Post Super | VFX Artist | BD Author
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Ok, but I think you can work full rang anyway because that way you can scale the full range file to legal levels in any mastering tool outside of DaVinci. That preserves the black levels made in “full range mode” without clipping. Lets say you feed a full range DPX into Smoke, and scale on the render. Correct me if Im wrong 🙂
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[stig olsen] “Ok, but I think you can work full rang anyway because that way you can scale the full range file to legal levels in any mastering tool outside of DaVinci. That preserves the black levels made in “full range mode” without clipping.”
That’s exactly what you do inside of DaVinci when you select legally scaled data levels in the render window, or apply a scaling output LUT, or DaVinci will do this automatically when going to certain codecs. Davinci does the math in 0-1023 while grading, then scales it on the render as needed or specified.
KC
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[stig olsen] “A regular TV can show black levels under 16. If I understand things correct, everyone working with normal monitoring limit their work. “
The difference is Y’CbCr vs. RGB mapped to SMPTE259M. In broadcast 0-100 IRE, the active portion of the gamut is 64-940, which allows for over- and under-shoot. AKA your “superwhites”, where you are allowed to flirt with above-and-below 0-100 IRE… If you want to send 0-1023 as if it was 64-940, it will get re-mapped to those values, with resulting floating blacks and compressed whites. Its very simple math, but gets a little bit complicated as the gamma coefficient will also change the grey scale interpolation. In that case, a simple linear LUT won’t fix it, even when you try to “tweak”-eyeball the values back to their unscaled rendition.
Everyone working with “normal monitoring” is not limiting their work, they are adhering to international SMPTE/EBU standards. This does not apply to digital cinema workflows involving RGB containers, for example, TIFF, TGA, CIN, DPX…
https://www.tri-sysdesigns.com/Articles/BlackisBlack.html
All of this is extremely obvious with even superficial meter-reading skills…. that is, using scopes of the outboard variety that are not being tainted by a software application’s possibly erroneous assumptions.
Why this may be a problem for a lot of users is likely to be a training deficiency, as very few individuals are exposed to technical fundamentals anymore. Me, I pine for the days of Reed-Solomon, but that is all in the past. Back to the rocking chair…
jPo
You mean “Old Ben”? Ben Kenobi?
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Hi, I know that it is the same scaling that happens. But, this should not be done in DaVinci – thats my point. That should be done in The mastering tool, because that is the only way to preserve true black. When working with the NS button on, you will not be able to produce the black that you want to be scaled later on. It set a limiter before the scaling.
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[stig olsen] “When working with the NS button on, you will not be able to produce the black that you want to be scaled later on. It set a limiter before the scaling.”
I hear you. I used to argue against grading with a legalizer in the monitor chain, but in the end, if you are delivering to broadcast, it is the destination, not the trip.
jPo
You mean “Old Ben”? Ben Kenobi?
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In my opinion, and largely the industry standard is to do it in the grade session (for broadcast), plenty of other stuff to worry about in mastering than scaling values. And some looks make it difficult to tell if image is scaled. Mistakes get made. The standard and expected workflow is for a colorist to deliver something fit for broadcast. If its not scaled, it’s not fit for broadcast.
Online Editor | Colorist | Post Super | VFX Artist | BD Author
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Joseph, Im pretty sure you are correct – that is just to advanced for me to understand 🙂 The one thing I know is that a full range file fed into Flame, mastered for TV have pure black levels on TV. A file monitored normal range, rendered normal range and fed into Flame reading legal levels, look flatter (grey in black) on TV. I also know that some high end post production houses in Oslo / Stockholm works full range and feed the Flame with a full range file. Why I dont know, but today I had to extend the levels from my normal range file in Flame for not showing my blacks sa grey on TV.
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