Noob Question, but no answers on google!

[Ivan Eldredge]

Hello David!

The difference between Media Duration and Media End is based on how Premiere Pro calculates timecode.

Media Duration: This shows the total number of frames in the clip. It is inclusive of the start frame but not the end frame.

Media End: This shows the timecode at the last displayed frame.

Because timecode counts from zero (00:00:00:00), the last frame of the media technically ends at the next frame’s start point. Therefore, the duration count includes that last frame, but the end timecode doesn’t, since it reflects where the media stops. This results in the duration being one frame longer than the end timecode.

In your case, you should provide the <strong style=”background-color: var(–bb-content-background-color); font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; color: var(–bb-body-text-color);”>Media End timecode for the <em style=”background-color: var(–bb-content-background-color); font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; color: var(–bb-body-text-color);”>FAST channel feed. The one-frame difference in duration is a normal behavior in Premiere and won’t cause issues if you use the end timecode since that indicates where the video content actually stops​​.

Hope this helps!
Best regards,

Ivan Eldredge G.

[David Bowen]

Ivan,

Thanks for the response. Yes, that is helpful.

Quick followup… Our channel partner requires metadata that includes both TC Out points and Media Duration. So for example, if a video is 00:02:00:00 then I’d supply 00:02:00:00 for TC Out and 00:02:00:01 for Media Duration?

Or is the Media Duration specific to Premiere’s timeline and the Duration and TC Out should be reported as the same?

[Tod Hopkins]

Haven’t seen this question in a long time. The prior response is correct. If you are being precise, TC indicates the beginning of a frame. An Out Point is marked at the end of a frame so as to include that frame. If you mark an in and out without moving the position you’ll have a one frame duration.

When you need to be inclusive of all visible frames you must use the out point as your end, not the last frame’s TC .

A one hour show’s last visible frame is 00:59:59;29 (at 29.97 drop frame). Speaking of that, if you are using non-drop and you end at 59:59:29 you are actually over an hour. Don’t make that mistake.

[David Bowen]

“When you need to be inclusive of all visible frames you must use the out point as your end, not the last frame’s TC .”

Okay, this makes sense but then the Media Duration for a video with a 00:02:00:00 Out Point will be 00:02:00:01. If the FAST channel needs these videos to be on-the-second, the +1 frame for Duration won’t pose a problem will it?

[Tod Hopkins]

First, let me compliment you on asking this question. Most people would just gloss this over.

Timecode counts time, not frames.

Premiere is identifying the Out Point incorrectly. To be fair Premiere is doing what makes sense to users visually in a graphical environment, but it’s not correct historically or mathematically. Hence the disconnect between the Out Point and Duration.

We like to think in frames, but timecode designates cut points, not frames. Each TC increment marks the beginning of a frame, not the frame itself. The Out Point is the point in time AFTER the frame. If you are thinking in frames, think of it as the stop-frame.

Premiere designates this correctly if you export an EDL, but not in the bins.

The duration Premiere reports is correct. If the duration is 2:00:01, you are one frame too long. By the way, 2:00;01 does not exist in drop-frame timecode. It is dropped because TC counts time, not frames.

[David Bowen]

This is all super helpful. But now I’m caught between your response and Ivan’s.

Ivan said I should use Media End as the TC to report to the FAST channel, however you’re saying it’s actually Media Duration. Media Duration adds one frame, so my end product is a video @ 00:02:00:01.

So final verdict is I should have timeline Out Point of 00:01:59:24 so that Media Duration is 00:02:00:00? (I’m working in PAL, obviously).

Thanks for all your input so far.

[Ivan Eldredge]

Hey David,

I understand the confusion, but I think Tod and I are actually on the same page — we’re just explaining it from different angles.

What Tod is saying is that timecode designates the beginning of a frame, not the frame itself. So when you set an Out Point, you’re marking the end of the last frame. Premiere Pro’s Media Duration includes that last frame in its calculation, which is why it shows one extra frame compared to the Media End.

To put it simply: Media Duration counts all the frames, including the last one. Media End represents where the video stops, which is what you should use when delivering to the FAST channel.

So to clear it up:

When you’re delivering your timecode for the feed, use the Media End timecode, as that’s where the video actually ends visually.

The Media Duration being one frame longer is normal and won’t cause any issues. It’s just Premiere’s way of counting that last frame, which makes sense mathematically but isn’t something you need to report.

Both Tod and I are saying the same thing from different perspectives — one focusing on how the system works (timecode math) and the other on what you need to do for delivery.

Hope that clears it up!

Best,

Ivan Eldredge G.

[Tod Hopkins]

Well, as you can see, it is a confusing topic, but I believe what you want is the Duration, not Media End which is peculiar to Premiere.

Duration indicates the length of active program including every frame. In other words, if you output that program as a file without time
code<i class=””>, Duration is how long the picture will be. If you take three sequences with a Duration of 01:00:00, and string them together, The result will total 03:00:00. If you take three programs with a Media End of 01:00:00, and string these together, your resulting program will be 3:00:03 because each is actually one frame longer than one minute.

You can see this in Premiere if Zoom all the way in. Place your position indicator at the END of your sequence in
Premiere. The position indicator will sit at the frame boundary at the end of active video. This position will equal your Duration, not the Media End.

[David Bowen]

OH. It finally clicked.

Both of you are agreeing basically that Media Duration should be 00:02:00:00 (as given in my example) but that I should report an out point of 00:01:59:24.

Man, it seems so simple now.

Thanks for taking the time to explain it!

[Tod Hopkins]

Sometimes you need to dig deep. Thirty years from film to video to non-linear to virtual and sometimes I still rack my brain on “simple” concepts like this. I appreciate the opportunity to work my way through an explanation, and that you made the effort needed to understand.