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Nondrop HD sequence to dropframe layoff for broadcast
Im trying to figure out how to get frame accurate layoffs in FCP. Either I am missing something or this is way more complicated that it needs to be. Im hoping its the former.
It seems that FCP cannot create drop-frame timelines in HD? We have a 23.98 non-drop sequence going to D5 59.94 dropframe through an AJA IO HD. The I/O is performing the pulldown to 59.94. The goal is to have our program start at 1 hour but short of manually sliding the media on the timeline around Im not able to get any sort of frame accurate layoffs. What I’ve done up until now is layoff a test tape, playback to see what frame the program actually comes in on, slip or slide it in the timeline to compensate, and the layoff again with this new offset. This is obviously not the ideal way of working and the sequence TC in my timeline does not match what is laid off to tape.
Am I just completely unaware of the right way of doing things or is this just the way things go in FCP?
Thanks,
Chris -
13 Replies
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FCP can do plenty of drop frame timings in HD. You just chose the frame rate that is NON-DROP only…23.98. So to get the proper drop frame timing from this non-drop format, you can get a timecode calculator that can do the conversion:
https://lfhd.blogspot.com/2008/10/timecode-calculator.html
Or you can figure this all out using SLUG and a couple timelines:
https://lfhd.blogspot.com/2006/09/online-workflow-overview.html
Shane
GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def -
Wow, thanks Shane. So it really is that janky?! Pretty incredible the hoops you have to jump through to make that work. Im looking at the framerate calc but Im somewhat unclear how to use it. I expected to be able to set-up my timeline and get a frame accurate layoff to tape. We’re not doing long programs, just :30 spots so it seems my slip method is fine.
Id really think FCP would have a more sophisticated way of handling this as its so common to shoot 23.98 these days. Perhaps by tracking both timecodes. It would be nice if I could setup a custom TC track with a target TC and let FC do the calculations on the fly. That way you could park your playhead anywhere and now exactly what the TC on tape would be at that point. This is really disappointing but thanks for your help.
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[Chris Sanderson] “Id really think FCP would have a more sophisticated way of handling this as its so common to shoot 23.98 these days.”
It isn’t FCP. 23.98 is a non-drop format, clear and simple. This would be the same issue on an Avid.
But seeing as you are only dealing with :30 second spots, this really is a non-issue. The accurate timing.
However, when you hardware convert the frame rate from 23.98 to 59.94, or 29.97, there will be slippage. Figuring out that slippage is up to you, but once you find it, it should stay the same.
Shane
GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def -
[Shane Ross] “It isn’t FCP. 23.98 is a non-drop format, clear and simple. This would be the same issue on an Avid. “
What Shane said. It’s never been a drop frame format.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.STOP STARING AND START GRADING WITH APPLE COLOR Apple Color Training DVD available now!
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I get that 23.98 is not a drop-frame format. Im also not comparing Final Cut to Avid. Im just surprised its such a guessing game and this wouldn’t be more worked out by now. Im using an IO HD to do the 23.98 to 59.94 conversion and it seems that the slippage you mentioned is not consistent for me. Once I get it, I can layoff all day long but it seems if I come back the next day, ill have to slip it around another frame or so. Im still trouble shooting this on my end to figure out if its a hardware thing or what. It’s also hard to spend time trouble shooting because we rent decks when we are laying off and generally don’t have a great deal of time to test with them.
It just seems there should be an absolute way of knowing what the TC your timeline will end up as when outputting to various formats/framerates
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THe issue there is caused by the conversion of frame rates…23.98 to 59.94. You can get accurate layback all day long if you didn’t do this conversion. ZERO slippage. But the conversion causes slippage, and that doesn’t remain consistent. I recall my layback guy had to do tricks to check if we hit the proper start point.
It is a new world…this frame rate conversion, so there are issues.
Shane
GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def -
WHy not put your 23.98 material in a 59.94 drop frame timeline?
In 720p, FCP actually renders the proper pulldown.
But your post is confusing me. Are you saying that you can’t get the ioHD to start on the frame that you need it to, or that you are having trouble figuring out where 23.98 lands in 59.94?
Jeremy
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[Chris Sanderson] “Im using an IO HD to do the 23.98 to 59.94 conversion and it seems that the slippage you mentioned is not consistent for me”
That slippage would depend on a number of factors also.
Do you have slugs in your FCP timeline – they are ALWAYS Non-Drop as are titles and anything generated from within FCP?
Did you use any content that originated as DF? that would screw up your timing.
Did you render the file out to a self-contained QT before output – as rendering on the fly can often result in timing errors if your timeline is set to anything that is not SAFE RT.
Most of us have been dealing with this issue for years without resolve.
gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production WorkflowsInside look at the IoHD
https://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php -
I *love* that TC calculator. Man, it was the hardest thing to find for a while, unless you wanted to pay a lot. The Netmedia one is awesome! And less than $10 USD.
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Shane, I posted this question on your blog, but I’ll post it here also, in case it might help someone. Regarding the Netmedia TC Calculator…
To get a proper 23.98 NDF to DF conversion with this timecode calculator you should convert 23.98 NDF to the setting called “23.98 DF”?
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