Noise & Y/C

[Bob Zelin]

I have no idea of how you are monitoring, but if you are capturing 10 bit uncompressed info from a Digi Beta (etc) into the Kona LH, you should see NO INCREASE IN NOISE. What are you monitoring with ? I am concerned when you say that you are using RCA to BNC adaptors – no professional VTR other than the Sony HDV VTR has RCA outputs, so what VTR are you using?

As for VHS into this product, I see no real advantage of using S-Video. The Composite input has a frame sync on it -it should be just fine to capture a horrible 240 line VHS machine.

bob Zelin

[Robert Ober]

Capturing from consumer equipment for my own use as a test. You can see the noise in the viewer. I am monitoring via component to a 20″ Toshiba or 13″ Samsung Aquos EDTV.

As for composite, I once sold video equipment and S is always better in my experience.

Thanks for you help,
Robert A. Ober

[Bob Zelin]

all consumer gear is crap, and you have no ability to judge professional AJA equipment with a Sharp Aquos (not Samsung), or a consumer Toshiba 20″ TV.

S Video is better than composite, but the image resolution of VHS is crap compared to any professional format. You own the best capture board on the market, that can do the finest resolution. You will not be able to make any judgements with consumer equipment.

You have spent a lot of money on an AJA product if all you are dealing with is VHS. You could get similar results with a $100 Canopus converter (that has an S-Video input).

When you use a Beta, Digi Beta, DVCPro50, DVCProHD, or HDV or HDCam with the AJA LH, and you see noise on a professional monitor, please write back, as it will be easier to diagnose your problem.

Bob Zelin

[Robert Ober]

I appreciate and understand what you are saying but your post strikes of eliteism. I bought the card to capture HD material from a HD PVR for my own use. As you may know, not all programs are available commercially or from the networks. Regardless of consumer equipment being crap, the LH should not ADD a significant amount of noise to the capture and it did. I was under the impression that this group is for helping others with the Kona cards. I realize full time pros would normally be the target audience but with HD becoming more common, others may take part here as well.

I have captured VHS via S to DV (have a DSR-11), but DV is so heavily compressed colorwise I was considering using the Kona for capturing VHS as well. I have tapes I would like to convert to DVD and keep a clean copy archivally to convert to future formats.

Take it EZ,
Robert A. Ober

[Robert Ober]

>the LH should not ADD a significant amount of noise to the capture and it >did.

Oops, In my attempt to make a point I spoke unjustly. Apoligies to Kona. It is entirely possibly that my cabling setup is at fault not the card. I will do further testing. No one complained but I thought I should set the record straight. I am not saying the card is in the clear, more testing is needed.

Y’all have fun,
Robert A. Ober

[Bob Zelin]

Robert –
the Kona product line will not act as a noise reducer, and will not clean up an analog VHS signal. VHS is the worst analog signal available today. This is not being elitist – it is a fact. There is nothing worse that I am aware of out there than a VHS source master, and the Kona series will do NOTHING to act as a noise reducer, or act as an image enhancer.

The Kona series is a professional capture card, which certainly can be used for numerous low end products, which include the Sony HDV series products, as well as consumer VHS and DVD players. But you can only expect so much from consumer sources. With digital technology available to everyone today, people even complain about analog Beta VTR sources, so what more can I say about VHS sources. I can appreciate that this is the material that you must work with (everyone has to deal with off air tapes once in a while) – but you can only expect so much. Hi end post houses can afford Teranex $100,000 noise and grain reducers, but us mere mortals cannot.

As for your cabling – unless you are using “Radio Shack” style cabling, it is pretty unlikely that your cabling is causing noise (unless you have very long runs – like over 50′). There was never an issue with you using RCA-BNC adaptors, and this would not introduce noise anyway.

I can appreciate your situation – you spent a lot of money on this equipment, you have a VHS source, and you want to know why the image looks like crap. What can I tell you. I can only assume that 99.99% of this forum does not have VHS as their main source material, and I doubt that AJA, Blackmagic, Aurora, Pinnacle, or AVID ever designed their products thinking about users that would have VHS as their primary source. I urge you to try a professional VTR format before condemming the AJA Kona product. Who knows – you might have a problem with your card.

Bob Zelin

[Robert Ober]

>will not clean up an analog VHS signal

Not expecting it to. Perhaps I was not clear. The VHS capture was the second part of my original post. I have not tried that yet. The first part of my post referred to a SD source via component. I came out of a Pioneer Elite DV45A DVD player via component to the Kona using Monster (admittedly the next to lowest price ones) component cables and the adapters I described. I know the Pioneer signal is clean because I can see virtually noise free signals (using the same discs) via the same component cables on the same TV’s.

The Kona capture at 10bit uncompressed 4:2:2 is MUCH noisier.

By the way, the electronics supply was closed Christmass weekend so the adapters are RadioShack but the cables are Monster as I stated.

As I mentioned in my last post, the main source for now will be a HD PVR via component that does 1080i60 and is better than I expected. I am writing a documentary and have ideas for others so hopefully DVCPRO HD or better is in my future.

At the risk of sounding like I am stroking, I really appreciate the your experience and expertise and willingness to help!

Take care,
Robert A. Ober

[Gary Adcock]

[infohou] “The Kona capture at 10bit uncompressed 4:2:2 is MUCH noisier. “
then something is wrong, that should not ever be the case.

[infohou] “As I mentioned in my last post, the main source for now will be a HD PVR via component that does 1080i60 and is better than I expected.”

respect others copyright — it protects your rights as a digital artist also.

Gary Adcock
Studio37
HD and Film Consultation
Chicago, IL USA

[Robert Ober]

>then something is wrong, that should not ever be the case

My thinking also. I am planning to try different connectors, hopefully Thursday.

>respect others copyright — it protects your rights as a digital artist also.

Absolutely. As I stated I am doing the captures for my own personal use. I make compilations to watch later. As an example, I stick Darlene Love’s yearly Letterman performance with other music clips and call the DVD’s Coolstuff. Not everyone is a pirate! I am an IT consultant and have made clients mad breaking their KaZa.

Thanks for the reply,
Robert A. Ober