NLE system needed, Promax?

[Brendan Coots]

I am probably completely alone here, but I don’t fully understand why people don’t just buy the components to their system separately via apple.com and B&H, for example. Sure you wouldn’t have 90 days of support from a single source, but their baseline mac pro editing system ($5,995) comes with, by my calculation, an $800 or so markup. Is 90 days of third-party support worth $800?

Now, before anyone gets mad at me, I know a lot of people here have a special place in their hearts for Promax, and I’m not trying to single them out, just wondering if I’m missing a bigger point here.

Brendan Coots
Splitvision Digital
http://www.splitvisiondigital.com

[Steve Wargo]

[Brendan Coots] “just wondering if I’m missing a bigger point here.”

Not everyone wants to be a system builder. I think that when you buy from ProMax, you get a system with everything installed and ready to go, along with someone really nice on the other end of the phone who can tell you where the power switch is located, among other things . It arrives, you pull it out of the box and go to work. With a kit, you need to know a lot of technical things which might completely baffle an “Editor”. Editors edit and technicians tech.

I used to build custom cars and often wondered why people would buy boring cars that came with the engine already installed. After all, all ya gotta do is plug it in and hook up a couple wires, slap some belts and hoses on there and drive it to church. I can rebuild any engine in the world but I have a hell of a time getting my e-mail to work.

I did a video a few years back on “Home Dentistry”. I’m not even going to go there.

By the way, I have dealt with B&H and it was the worst experience of my professional career. I know that a lot of people won’t go anywhere else but not me, ever again.

Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It’s a dry heat!

Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck
2-Sony EX-1 HD .

[Walter Biscardi]

[Brendan Coots] “I’m not trying to single them out, just wondering if I’m missing a bigger point here.”

The bigger point is you have a fully functional system that they will test for 24 hours prior to you receiving it. You also have complete phone tech support so if anything does not work, they have to figure it out, not you.

When putting together your first FCP system, I always recommend a VAR to ensure that you get all the correct components AND you get proper installation of all those components. I purchased my first complete FCP system from ProMax and also assist a local VAR here in Atlanta with training.

When you buy from a VAR you’re getting a support team behind the purchase. When you purchase the components yourself, you ARE the support team. Invariably, each vendor will point to the other for any problem that arrises. If you’re the system integrator, then you have to figure out who’s right and who’s wrong.

After you’ve used FCP for a few years and feel comfortable with it, then absolutely build systems yourself if you’re comfortable. But even today, I purchase all my gear through WH Platts here in Atlanta as they are a solid VAR and if anything goes wrong with anything, they deal with the vendor, not me.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.

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[Barbara Daly]

You guys are great! I would love to be able to whip up a NLE myself but that is not my strong point. And I do really appreciate being able to call one source and have them answer to all the components in the system. So, I was really bummed when Promax went down. Does anyone have experience with them since they reorganized? Any reason not to have faith in them at this point?
Thanks so much for your experience,
b

[Mark Suszko]

This is purely suppositional, but if I was in ProMax’s position, knowing that people would be a little skittish early in the comeback period, I would go out of my way to be ridiculously helpful in customer support, seeing it as the best marketing investment you can make. Charles’ old ProMax built it’s business on such a sterling reputation and word of mouth. So to make the rebooted version of the company a long-term success, you HAVE to work your butt off to meet and exceed the previous reputation. Meaning the early pioneer customers should, in theory at least, get the absolute BEST service.

[Barbara Daly]

Makes total sense. However, what about those old service contracts that weren’t being honored? I wonder if that’s been straightened out….
Thanks for your input, I hope you are right.
b

[Ron Lindeboom]

[walter biscardi] ”
The bigger point is you have a fully functional system that they will test for 24 hours prior to you receiving it.”

This was supposed to the way it was but the truth is my last machine from tem did not have this done at all. In fact, when I got it, it didn’t work and Abraham and I had to rebuild it ourselves.

I know we were one of the exceptions but still, it really was a bummer.

It was an internet server Xserve, so they may not do this to them.

Best regards,

Ron Lindeboom

Remember: Burt Bacharach lied. What the world really needs now is an undo button.

[Brendan Coots]

These points all make sense on some level, but:

1. Editors edit, not build systems/can’t find the on/off switch
I am of the opinion that any editor who doesn’t know what components go into an editing system, or can’t reliably turn on their own machine shouldn’t be in the industry. I don’t have half the experience that many here do, but from my observations half of an editor’s job (or any digital artist) is managing the tools that go into their work. If the external monitor isn’t getting a signal for some reason, does the editor poke around and get it going or do you halt production and wait for your VAR to come around and troubleshoot? Serious painters must know every detail about the brushes they pick, why they were selected and how to keep them in good shape.

2. VARs offer support and act as a middle man to the manufacturer.
Great, provided they can do a better job/have more access than AppleCare can offer. Let’s remember these editing systems are Mac Pros with FCP pre-installed, speakers and monitors. The only things that COULD go wrong would be fully supported by Apple in those first 90 days even without AppleCare.

3. If you’re comfortable customizing computers (like a custom car) then go ahead
Buying a mac with FCP preinstalled, two apple monitors and a pair of speakers isn’t exactly a “custom build.” All of these components can be ordered directly from Apple in one go, and an Apple business rep can give you all the info you need by phone before ordering if you aren’t sure about compatibility, etc.

To each his own I say. I’m not trying to shoot down anyone else’s point of view. I just think that learning how to set these systems up and troubleshoot issues internally could save the business a lot of money, and is therefore worth the minimal time investment. Any issues beyond basic troubleshooting would likely require sending the machine back to Apple for repair, regardless of where you bought it.

Brendan Coots
Splitvision Digital
http://www.splitvisiondigital.com

[Walter Biscardi]

[Brendan Coots] “I am of the opinion that any editor who doesn’t know what components go into an editing system, or can’t reliably turn on their own machine shouldn’t be in the industry. “

Can’t disagree with you more. Some of the best editors I work with don’t know how to troubleshoot anything beyond FCP issues. They don’t really care how the components work, they just know how to drive FCP.

A lot of editors don’t want to be engineers, they just want to drive the systems. I prefer most of the editors don’t know how the inner workings of my systems are set up because they generally cause more grief than they help.

[Brendan Coots] “The only things that COULD go wrong would be fully supported by Apple in those first 90 days even without AppleCare. “

With you making the phone calls and going back and forth with tech support. WH Platts here in Atlanta doesn’t waste time. If my Mac Pro, AJA Kona, speakers or any other component doesn’t work, we have another one in our shop in about 24 hours, they take back the defective part and deal with the vendor. I like this a lot more than dealing with it myself.

In fact we ran into two major issues with both Adobe and Apple in just the past year that took over 6 months to resolve. WH Platts took care of all the dealings with them and not me.

[Brendan Coots] “Buying a mac with FCP preinstalled, two apple monitors and a pair of speakers isn’t exactly a “custom build.””

Buying a Mac with FCP installed, RAID card, RAID array set up property to RAID 5 with the correct HBA adapter, Video Capture Card, proper cabling and connections to external devices is more of an issue. If all you want is FCP with a Mac, then go ahead. But generally professional edit systems go far beyond a simple software install on to a Mac.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.

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[Walter Biscardi]

[Ron Lindeboom] “It was an internet server Xserve, so they may not do this to them.”

Definitely not something i’ve ever ordered from them. We only ordered individual parts or entire NLE systems. Definitely not the way to treat a customer though if you have to completely rebuild that system.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.

STOP STARING AND START GRADING WITH APPLE COLOR Apple Color Training DVD available now!
Read my Blog!