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New Xeons for next year
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[Clint Wardlow] “And I think this is a mistake on Apple’s part. One of the big reasons I (and I think a lot of others) bought Macs was the perception –true or not– that a Mac machine outlasted a PC”
It’s not that the new boxes wont last 5 years. It’s that they want that box to be a Thunderbolt box. They don’t want PCIe slots hanging on that long. I can speculate why they’re doing that but it does seem obvious to me that’s what they’re doing (pushing people to new technology).
Very speculative on my part but it may be that Apple as “learned” that there’s money to be made in short turnover… such as people who update their iPhones every year. Keep in mind that doesn’t mean the older device goes away. In fact there’s a very big used market for such devices. In fact what it may do is drive up market share in that not only are the older devices are in use for several years, there’s a drive to buy the newer device.
One anecdotal version of this I experienced recently, I was talking to someone who bought a MBPr with 8GB of RAM. I asked them what would happen if you eventually decided you need 16GB (for those who don’t know, the RAM is not user changeable)? He said he’d sell the 8GB model and use the money towards a 16GB model.
I’m not saying for sure this will be the model for the MacPro replacement but, selling the old and buying the new, gets more machines in circulation.
In any case, I don’t think Apple is going to shorten the usable life of the MP replacement. I just don’t think they had any business interest in selling a 2012 MP without Thunderbolt, USB3 and whatever other revisions they have coming for it. Keep in mind the MP is a very low sale item for Apple so the last thing they may have wanted is for you to buy a 2012 MP with Sandy Bridge Xeon and new GPU and keep that going instead of buying next year’s major revision.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “Is it really more power for less money?
What PCs offer is iMac speed (quad core i7) in a desktop form factor.
When you start building “big iron” from the likes of HP with enterprise Xeons, the prices are very similar.”
You are actually right about that. I think I was more irritated by the notion that I was able to buy a mac get five or six years (or even longer out of it) but Apple may be putting an end to that.
I know for a lot of folks on here constantly updating hardware is a something they have to live with (and their big bitch about the Mac Pro is that it hasn’t given them a decent upgrade in years). However for a small potatoes guy like me, having to upgrade hardware every two years is a killer.
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[Craig Seeman] “Because Apple wants you to buy Thunderbolt MacBox when they release and not a PCIe slotted box you’re going to keep using for 5 years”
This kind of Mac-centric reasoning doesn’t work, it assumes there are no options other than to wait for what they hand out. In my case Apple just f*cked up because now the odds are 80-20 the thunderbolt computer I’m probably buying next will not be made by Apple. If they would have provided me with the machine I just talked about in a reasonable timeframe they would have had me for at least another 5 years.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Craig Seeman] “I just don’t think they had any business interest in selling a 2012 MP without Thunderbolt, USB3 and whatever other revisions they have coming for it.”
Craig,
… but you neglect to note that they are in fact selling such a machine.
Franz.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “Is it really more power for less money?”
Technically no, I suppose. But you can get faster processors, more powerful graphics cards and more RAM in a PC. So it seems that this can only be true if you compare what’s available on the Mac to similar a PC.
[Jeremy Garchow] “When you start building “big iron” from the likes of HP with enterprise Xeons, the prices are very similar.”
Only if you limit your options to one of the large systems integrators like HP or Boxx. There are other SI’s to choose from though, plus the option to build your own… which is a lot cheaper.
Shawn
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[Herb Sevush] “This kind of Mac-centric reasoning doesn’t work,”
Apple would disagree with you I suspect.
[Herb Sevush] “t assumes there are no options other than to wait for what they hand out.”
There have always been other options. All metrics point to Apple’s Computer market share growing while most others are shrinking. I suspect Apple thought through how to make the MacPro replacement viable for them as a business model.
[Herb Sevush] ” In my case Apple just f*cked up because now the odds are 80-20 the thunderbolt computer I’m probably buying next will not be made by Apple.”
I’m glad you discovered a source of Xeon based Thunderbolt Windows computers. Apparently whoever is making them has the world’s worst marketing given the lack of news on such.
I think Apple may be FIRST to market with this just as they were first to market with Thunderbolt computers. There’s also great value when an entire line is using the same connectors. That can’t be said of any of the PC makers implementing Thunderbolt. Every Thunderbolt peripheral you buy can be attached to any Mac you own (once the MacPro replacement comes out). That’s an ecosystem strategy when a single peripheral purchase can work on your MacMini, MacBookAir, MacBookPro, iMac . . . and finally MacPro Replacement. It economizes the peripheral purchase decisions. BTW everyone of those Macs can also run Windows natively with Bootcamp.
[Herb Sevush] ” If they would have provided me with the machine I just talked about in a reasonable timeframe they would have had me for at least another 5 years.”
Thunderbolt Xeon doesn’t exist and it’s not entirely within their control as Intel has a big role to play in this. I’m sure Apple will be ready when the technology is ready and they will probably be FIRST to market with it.
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[Shawn Miller] “Technically no, I suppose. But you can get faster processors, more powerful graphics cards and more RAM in a PC. So it seems that this can only be true if you compare what’s available on the Mac to similar a PC. “
This has been true since time immemorial, no? Not one thing has changed in this regard, except perhaps a lot of Mac users looking at PCs in earnest for the first time in a long time, or perhaps for the first time, period.
[Shawn Miller] “Only if you limit your options to one of the large systems integrators like HP or Boxx. There are other SI’s to choose from though, plus the option to build your own… which is a lot cheaper.”
I can also build my own Mac. I’d much rather pay for peace of mind via support, but that’s just me.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “I can also build my own Mac. I’d much rather pay for peace of mind via support, but that’s just me.”
I have seen more people bulding Hackintosh computers, can you still get OS support from Apple if you do that? I ask because I genuinely don’t know.
I do agree that buying from a solid SI goes a long way to keeping your sanity, I have a few vendors that I favor myself. I guess I also like the freedom and cost effectiveness of building my own machines. I have fantasies of building my next workstation myself… time will tell if I actually have time to do it. 🙂
Shawn
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[Craig Seeman] “[Herb Sevush] ” In my case Apple just f*cked up because now the odds are 80-20 the thunderbolt computer I’m probably buying next will not be made by Apple.”
I’m glad you discovered a source of Xeon based Thunderbolt Windows computers. Apparently whoever is making them has the world’s worst marketing given the lack of news on such. “
I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear, although I did use the word “next” – perhaps your unfamiliar with it.
This past summer I bought an overpriced 2010 MacPro out of necessity, my next computer purchase will be in about 2 years, by which time I would imagine the Xeon Tbolts will have come out, and, if the market supports it, will be in use by everyone. Apple’s 1 year advantage will be long gone.
[Craig Seeman] “[Herb Sevush] ” If they would have provided me with the machine I just talked about in a reasonable timeframe they would have had me for at least another 5 years.”
Thunderbolt Xeon doesn’t exist and it’s not entirely within their control as Intel has a big role to play in this. I’m sure Apple will be ready when the technology is ready and they will probably be FIRST to market with it.”
The computer I referenced is the one mentioned in the previous post -NO thunderbolt, but USB3 better GFX, more PCI slots, Sandy Bridge etc. That’s the computer that should have been available in June, that’s the computer that would have made me happy to stay with Apple and buy their Tbolt computer next time around.
But instead I was forced, with a dead computer and no options, to buy a replacement with 3 year old technology at no price reduction – the single most overpriced piece of shit computer I was ever stuck with.
The lesson learned, a theme for the past two years, is the value of keeping your options open – with major software try to stay with companies that are cross platform, with hardware try to buy systems offered by multiple vendors — I guess that doesn’t sound like Apple.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf -
[Shawn Miller] “I have seen more people bulding Hackintosh computers, can you still get OS support from Apple if you do that? I ask because I genuinely don’t know.”
Well, what would OS support from Apple look like?
I was talking more about hardware support, like, “my computer exploded into a ball of fiery bits, send me a new one” type of support. 😉
As far as being able to legally install an Apple OS on non Apple hardware, it varies by country.
Have a look at the Psystar case.
In a place like Germany, it’s OK to sell a non Apple branded computer with OSX due to a EULA loophole in German law:
https://pearc.de/ueber-pearc-eng-1?parentid=72&parentname=ueber-pearc
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PearC
Jeremy
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