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New MacPro closer to reality?
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I don’t think it was a hard decision for Apple at all. They waited for Ivey Bridge’s native support of USB3 on the chip. Which is likely why there is no more substantial intermediary MacPro update this year, since the 2012 Xeons still don’t have USB3 or TB on chip either.
I think leaving the machine on the market is their way of saying it’s not going away (which is all Jim Dalrymple every said, which sparked all the WWDC refresh rumours), but the half hearted update says, “Unless you must- wait.”.
In a perfect world, we would see less emphasis on the consumer secrecy around the Pro products. But I’m not sure a company can have two stances on that. FCPX has has the most open roadmap of any Apple product in recent memory. Though I think that window will close as the remaining legacy features are integrated. Once the features are 100% forward-looking again, I don’t think we’ll get any more previews.
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[Marcus Moore] “They waited for Ivey Bridge’s native support of USB3 on the chip”
Yes. For those who complain about how “slow” Apple was in adopting USB3, they may not be aware of how major motherboard support is relative to getting the full advantage of USB3 in many cases. One might look at the Blackmagic Shuttle USB3 input device which they only certified for ONE MSI laptop precisely because of USB3 issues.
[Marcus Moore] “no more substantial intermediary MacPro update this year, since the 2012 Xeons still don’t have USB3 or TB on chip either.”
Yes again. I don’t see any reason why Apple would determine Xeon processors no longer have a purpose, nor more powerful GPUs for that matter. This is especially so given the demands FCPX and Motion can make on a system. Delivery is very much dependent on Thunderbolt as you note.
Apple wasn’t “shocked” into reconsidering a “power box.” The technology for what Apple wants to deliver hasn’t been delivered yet.
[Marcus Moore] “Though I think that window will close as the remaining legacy features are integrated. Once the features are 100% forward-looking again, I don’t think we’ll get any more previews.”
True. Much of what Apple reveals is about what some would call “catch up” features. Features unique to FCPX aren’t talked about in advance and I personally think that’s a sensible thing to do in a competitive environment.
Apple has never been very forward about future hardware of any kind. Tim Cook’s revelation may have been forced to public exposure early but only in that he acknowledged something is in the works for next year and little else.
Some people speculate that Apple has lost the ability to innovate with hardware but my own guess is that next year’s MacPro replacement will be major. This does not mean everyone will like it but I can’t help but think the Xeon, GPU use, Thunderbolt combination will be unique and valuable to many professionals. At least it will be to those who see value in Thunderbolt but need something a bit more than Quad i7.
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[Marcus Moore] “I don’t think it was a hard decision for Apple at all. They waited for Ivey Bridge’s native support of USB3 on the chip. Which is likely why there is no more substantial intermediary MacPro update this year, since the 2012 Xeons still don’t have USB3 or TB on chip either.”
Marcus, I don’t really want to rehash this argument. Its been had over and over here, and at the end of the day its all speculation. I personally believe, as many others do, that USB3 should have been on Macs a good two to three years before it was finally available. Jobs spoke against adopting it, and I just don’t think that policy was reversible while he was in the driver’s seat. And, while I can see your argument for USB3 on portables, I don’t think it follows for workstations. There were plenty of good reasons to have upgraded to newer chipsets last year or earlier this year if they were truly enthusiastic about workstations.
[Marcus Moore] “I think leaving the machine on the market is their way of saying it’s not going away (which is all Jim Dalrymple every said, which sparked all the WWDC refresh rumours), but the half hearted update says, “Unless you must- wait.”.”
Well, no. I think the MacPro’s aging architecture and WWDC’s reputation for being a source of product announcements are what sparked the refresh rumors. Dalrymple was only one of many, many voices. If you need proof of that, just look at the conversations on this forum starting in the Fall of last year. You will clearly see the concern over/demand for a new Mac Pro, with growing speculation that WWDC might be the announce point. As for the other, that may be true. But the same argument was made for Shake, year after year, and that didn’t pan out quite so well. And again, there were plenty of ways to refresh the MacPro line if they had been really interested in doing so.
[Marcus Moore] “In a perfect world, we would see less emphasis on the consumer secrecy around the Pro products. But I’m not sure a company can have two stances on that. FCPX has has the most open roadmap of any Apple product in recent memory. Though I think that window will close as the remaining legacy features are integrated. Once the features are 100% forward-looking again, I don’t think we’ll get any more previews.
“Yes, FCP X has had an open roadmap, but I think that’s due to unprecedented blowback. As is the case with the announcement of something that will fill the MacPro spot in the lineup. What that something is remains to be seen, but I believe it will be an honest attempt. As to “the remaining legacy features,” I’m not sure what you mean, other than, perhaps, a mixer. There are a number of older FCP features that I doubt will ever be incorporated in X, simply because the underlying nature of X is so different, as is the focus of the software. The target audience is also different, as is reflected in their current ad campaign–“the Pro in all of us.” You may see it differently, and that’s fine. There are plenty of arguments for and against our POVs, but in the end its all stargazing, and we’ve gazed on those stars here many times over the last year and a half.
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[Craig Seeman] “[Marcus Moore] “They waited for Ivey Bridge’s native support of USB3 on the chip”
Yes. For those who complain about how “slow” Apple was in adopting USB3, they may not be aware of how major motherboard support is relative to getting the full advantage of USB3 in many cases. One might look at the Blackmagic Shuttle USB3 input device which they only certified for ONE MSI laptop precisely because of USB3 issues.”
Craig, I’m sorry. Have you watched the way USB3 was adapted and used by high end PCs over the last several years? Maybe you haven’t been in an environment where you have felt or seen the disadvantage, but I have. There are many more USB3 uses that the Blackmagic box. One of the problems with talking to Mac-only folk is the degree to which they are cocooned off from the rest of the world. I think it should actually be called “One Button Mouse Syndrome.”
[Craig Seeman] “Apple wasn’t “shocked” into reconsidering a “power box.” The technology for what Apple wants to deliver hasn’t been delivered yet.”
Craig, you called Gary out fairly roughly above for prognosticating without any facts. I’d say the same goes here. What you are stating is a belief. Your faith in Apple colors you opinion every bit as much, and probably more so, than Gary’s doubt colors his. From my position, I’d say his is far more realistic, but I don’t have any more info than anybody else does, so I don’t tend to get so emphatic about my own cloud readings.
[Craig Seeman] “True. Much of what Apple reveals is about what some would call “catch up” features. Features unique to FCPX aren’t talked about in advance and I personally think that’s a sensible thing to do in a competitive environment.
“Has there been anything other than “catchup” features?
[Craig Seeman] “my own guess is that next year’s MacPro replacement will be major. This does not mean everyone will like it but I can’t help but think the Xeon, GPU use, Thunderbolt combination will be unique and valuable to many professionals. At least it will be to those who see value in Thunderbolt but need something a bit more than Quad i7.”
That would be great. I hope you are right.
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[Chris Harlan] “Craig, I’m sorry. Have you watched the way USB3 was adapted and used by high end PCs over the last several years? Maybe you haven’t been in an environment where you have felt or seen the disadvantage, but I have. There are many more USB3 uses that the Blackmagic box. One of the problems with talking to Mac-only folk is the degree to which they are cocooned off from the rest of the world. I think it should actually be called “One Button Mouse Syndrome.””
A huge amount of my work involves PCs. I also understand Apple doesn’t accept what it believes are technical compromises. Granted it’s a company business philosophy that can be a problem for many. There’s certainly been USB3 PCIe cards for MacPros. The issue is laptops and once Intel started supporting USB3 directly, Apple included them. It’s Apple’s threshold. I think you will continue to see Apple hold to that standard.
[Chris Harlan] ” Your faith in Apple colors you opinion every bit as much, and probably more so”
No “faith” in Apple. It’s my analysis of their business model. I don’t necessarily like Apple’s business decisions. I do make the effort to understand them. I do that by following past patterns and how they evolve. With Jobs vs Cook it’s also how they’ve each handled company challenges.
[Chris Harlan] “Has there been anything other than “catchup” features?”
Everything that makes FCPX fundamentally different. The whole connected clip, secondary story line, avoidance of clip collision, roles, organizing by keywords rather than traditional bins, skimming, are, at best, only distantly related to traditional NLEs. The whole “rethink” is nothing at all to do with catchup.
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[Craig Seeman] “A huge amount of my work involves PCs. I also understand Apple doesn’t accept what it believes are technical compromises. “
Yeah, but under Jobs that “technical compromise” could be a belief that a second mouse button was un-needed, or dual layer DVD was unnecessary (the “Super Drive” was what, a year–two years–behind other dual layer drives), or that the internal component arrangement that no one would ever see wasn’t elegantly arranged enough. To me, Tim Cook seems more reasonable.
[Craig Seeman] “There’s certainly been USB3 PCIe cards for MacPros. The issue is laptops and once Intel started supporting USB3 directly, Apple included them.”
Intel’s decision has certainly made it easier for them, but that doesn’t mean they couldn’t have gone with a 3rd party controller a few years earlier. Conversely, they could have ignored the new USB3 support, as they have with other chipset features in the past. But, hey–we can all agree that its great that its there now.
[Craig Seeman] “With Jobs vs Cook it’s also how they’ve each handled company challenges.
“We definitely agree on that.
[Craig Seeman] “[Chris Harlan] “Has there been anything other than “catchup” features?”
Everything that makes FCPX fundamentally different. The whole connected clip, secondary story line, avoidance of clip collision, roles, organizing by keywords rather than traditional bins, skimming, are, at best, only distantly related to traditional NLEs. The whole “rethink” is nothing at all to do with catchup.
“I think the point here is that you were saying that they don’t announce new features, but do announce “catch up” features. So my remark had to do with things after the release, and not before.
Let me ask you this, because I think its where we can agree: Do you like what Tim Cook’s brought to Apple thus far?
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[Chris Harlan] “Yeah, but under Jobs that “technical compromise” could be a belief that a second mouse button was un-needed”
Least we forget the worst one button mouse of all, that hockey puck mouse
[Chris Harlan] “To me, Tim Cook seems more reasonable.”
There’s a major difference in style from “don’t hold it that way” (iPhone antenna) to “Sorry” (iOS Maps). Cook seems very ready to handle public issues. It may well be part of Forstall’s departure, Ive’s promotion, Cue’s dismissing the executive in charge of iOS Maps as just happened the other day.
[Chris Harlan] “Let me ask you this, because I think its where we can agree: Do you like what Tim Cook’s brought to Apple thus far?”
It’s hard to characterize differences in management styles in bites but here’s my take.
Jobs was innovation and marketing at all costs. Cook is innovation and functionality at all costs.
I think the whole Forstall, Ive, Cue management shifts may be a good indicator of changes in company philosophy. John Browett’s short lived retail tenure might also be an indicator in a different way. Basically it’s that Cook will very quickly correct missteps and will not protect management responsible.One challenge in some parts of evaluating the changes is we don’t know to what extent Jobs influence is still being worked through. Other’s are more obvious as the management changes (Forestall for example) would seem to be clearly Cook’s decisions.
Some of the interesting design things are:
7″ iPad remember Jobs position on that but it wasn’t outside his tendency to reverse his own public positions.
New 21″ iMac no user upgradable RAM like MBPr
New 27″ iMac has user upgradable RAM
iPhone 5 and iPad 4 change in dock connector especially the change in the iPad within its product life cycle.
Which were Jobs and which were Cook’s decisions?We know what he’s doing with management. We can only guess what he’s doing with product lineups but that will crystalize over time. My hunch is that Cook is a lot more responsive to problems or, at least more visible with such decisions. For those of us who depend on these products for our livelihood, I think that’s a good thing.
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Excellant post! I’d quote it bit by bit but I’d be agreeing with most everything.
[Craig Seeman] “Some of the interesting design things are:
7″ iPad remember Jobs position on that but it wasn’t outside his tendency to reverse his own public positions.
New 21″ iMac no user upgradable RAM like MBPr
New 27” iMac has user upgradable RAM
iPhone 5 and iPad 4 change in dock connector especially the change in the iPad within its product life cycle.
Which were Jobs and which were Cook’s decisions?
“This I have to chew on. Interesting observations.
One thing I have to say in defense of the 7″ iPad is that I thought it was a stupid idea until I held one in my hand. I probably won’t get one, but it really is interesting that you can hold it in one hand and sort of thumb through it. At least I can, but I’ve got very big hands.
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[Chris Harlan] “One thing I have to say in defense of the 7″ iPad is that I thought it was a stupid idea until I held one in my hand. I probably won’t get one, but it really is interesting that you can hold it in one hand and sort of thumb through it. At least I can, but I’ve got very big hands.”
I got one a couple of weeks ago and after using it a lot it has now replaced my retina iPad3, I also have big hands!
Steve Connor
‘It’s just my opinion, with an occasional fact thrown in for good measure” -
[Steve Connor] “Chris Harlan] “One thing I have to say in defense of the 7″ iPad is that I thought it was a stupid idea until I held one in my hand. I probably won’t get one, but it really is interesting that you can hold it in one hand and sort of thumb through it. At least I can, but I’ve got very big hands.”
I got one a couple of weeks ago and after using it a lot it has now replaced my retina iPad3, I also have big hands!
“I think it probably would for me, too. I probably would have chosen it over my retina iPad if it had been out at the time. Its funny, though, that I didn’t think I’d have any use for it until I put it in my hand. I literally changed my mind about it in an instant.
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