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New Macbook – Deliberately hobbled?
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Wow – this all went a little off-topic. Whilst we’re at it though, I just cannot see what issues Apple have to overcome with Blu-Ray that have not been overcome by EVERY OTHER computer manufacturer. You give a Blu-Ray option, and you charge a price that covers the licencing. End of story. That’s a completely seperate issue to making authoring software like, erm, Adobe and Roxio did.
If there was official Blu-Ray support on Macs, perhaps the 3rd party solutions wouldn’t suck as hard as they do. Also, I have 2 Blu-Ray drives, one internal and one external, and both are recognised by OSX. Both are available for burning plug-and-play. I even get a nice little BD-R logo on my Apple desktop when I stick a BD-R in. So who are Apple trying to kid? All their attitude achieves is sub-standard Mac software like Encore. Way to go Apple!
So – to conclude: Apple hobbled the Macbook to protect it’s Pro market and hobbles Pro machines with no Blu-Ray to protect it’s ITMS market. Oh well – I guess they can have a bit less of my money in future.
Ben
Edit Out Ltd
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[Jeremy Garchow] “And when you go to replicate, it’s a $4,500 licensing fee just to get started. At least it was last time I called around. “
That’s the licensing fee for Commercial Replication. NOT to install a BluRay drive inside your machine. Those are two different things.
i’m sure there’s a licensing fee to add BluRay authoring to software, but not just to install the drive.
[Jeremy Garchow] “Oh yeah? Where? I am curious as I have not been successful in my area (Chicago). If anyone knows of one in the area, I am all ears. “
The folks we talk to are out of Phoenix. I didn’t say they were all around, they’re just easier to find now. When we looked 14 months ago we had two choice. Do a Google search for Blu Ray Replication and you’ll get some options.
Don’t know of any in Chicago, but I work with folks all over the country.
[Jeremy Garchow] “Walter, I know your answers already. “
I will just add that we did NOT purchase any BluRay equipment until the first client asked for it. One thing we do own is a Version 1.0 player (Sony BDP-S1) and a Version 2.0 player (Samsung 1500) and I’m about to purchase another Version 2.0 player (Sony) because these discs have to be tested a LOT more than DVD discs.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.STOP STARING AND START GRADING WITH APPLE COLOR Apple Color Training DVD available now!
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[walter biscardi] “That’s the licensing fee for Commercial Replication. NOT to install a BluRay drive inside your machine. Those are two different things. “
Agreed, but I am looking at the cost of the whole kit and kaboodle. Not just what it costs to get a burner.
[walter biscardi] “i’m sure there’s a licensing fee to add BluRay authoring to software, but not just to install the drive. “
That license has been paid for when you buy the drive.
[walter biscardi] “The folks we talk to are out of Phoenix.”
Who? I’d like to call them.
[walter biscardi] “I’m about to purchase another Version 2.0 player (Sony) because these discs have to be tested a LOT more than DVD discs.”
Is that due to inconsistencies?
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[Ben Holmes] “So – to conclude: Apple hobbled the Macbook to protect it’s Pro market and hobbles Pro machines with no Blu-Ray to protect it’s ITMS market. Oh well – I guess they can have a bit less of my money in future.”
This is the logic that is silly. You don’t think if Apple had a way to do BluRay, they woudn’t sell MORE machines? If they could do it in a way they see fit, they would.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “What does this have to do with anything? If I made a BluRay disc in DVDSP (if it was possible) or Encore, what does that have to do with Apple’s download service from iTunes?”
Nothing. Which is why, IMO, it’s unfortunate that Apple is limiting its offerings to try and ‘protect’ the iTMS and AppleTV from Blu-Ray. When DVD SP 4 was released Apple was touting it’s ability to author an HD-DVD. Even though it was very basic and limited they were still like, “Hey look what we can do first.” That was in 2005. What’s changed? Why is Apple backing away from being a leader in desktop authoring?
I know Apple is booming in the consumer electronics sector and that’s good for them and I’m not saying I want to them turn their back on that big money maker. It’s just kinda irritating that over the past couple of years there have been consumer-centric decisions that have effected Apple’s professional base and Apple doesn’t seem to mind. The delays due to the iPhone, the QT 7.4 fiasco, etc.,. The early partnership w/Red looked exciting but that seemed to fizzle into nothing. I look at Adobe and Avid comin’ out swinging and I wonder what happened to the full head of steam Apple’s ProApps used to have.
But who knows… If Apple sticks to the 2 year update cycle a new FC suite will be shown at NAB and maybe we’ll all be happy campers again.
I’m not a fanboy nor a hater but I do think I should be able to give criticism every now and then w/o being told love it or leave it.
-A
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[Jeremy Garchow] “[walter biscardi] “The folks we talk to are out of Phoenix.”
Who? I’d like to call them.
“I can’t find their email, I’ll pull it out of the files in the morning. Have you googled BluRay replication yet? That’s what we did when we started. I just did it again, found 12 companies doing replication.
[Jeremy Garchow] “[walter biscardi] “I’m about to purchase another Version 2.0 player (Sony) because these discs have to be tested a LOT more than DVD discs.”
Is that due to inconsistencies? “
Yep. The Samsung has some issues that the Sony doesn’t show, and we know the LG machines are different too. Samsung just updated their machines due to two new BluRays coming out shortly and they had to be updated to run them. So with BluRay especially you have to make sure all the machines are updated. We had the same inconsistencies with Encore.
A lot of them are just weird stuff. Animated menus that don’t animate on one machine, but does on another, etc…
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.STOP STARING AND START GRADING WITH APPLE COLOR Apple Color Training DVD available now!
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According to Jobs the Blu-ray licensing requirements are a world of hurt he doesn’t want Apple to get into. Said he would reconsider if and when things settle down, but now it’s just too much of a headache, and probably a great of money as well.
All the best,
Tom
Class on Demand DVDs “Complete Training for FCP6,” “Basic Training for FCS2” and “Final Cut Express Made Easy”
Author: “Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials” and “Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop” -
I did Google it and found one in Chicago, actually. It was no less than 1,000 discs made @ $3.25 a disc, which did not include a $1300 AACS fee plus $.04 per disc for the AACS. So, that means I can get 1,000 discs (no less) and that will cost me $4,590 plus tax and shipping. Cheaper than when I last checked, but still not cheap. It is also rare that I need a run of 1,000. That also was from a DLT master. It didn’t mention anything from a BD-R master.
Anyway, sorry this got off topic, I just think that Apple does not deliberately hobble anything. Decisions needs to be made, business decisions, and you can’t include everything in every release and expect to keep the same cost or lower. In my opinion, the macbook has not been a legit FCP editor for a while anyway. If you need to edit, you can spend the extra $600 for a real computer with real connectivity that will operate FCS without issue.
Jeremy
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If Apple had a way to do Blu-Ray? I’m sorry, but I have not seen any reasoning why they can’t include a Blu-Ray drive in their machines, the same as everyone else does. The costs and licencing issues of professional replication are well known, but they are not the issue here. As I said before, Apple could put these drives in machines to order, and cover the per-machine licence costs in the extra charges. Whether or not they chose to develop a proper authoring solution is a completely separate issue, surely?
I don’t think it’s any stretch to say that Blu-Ray players (and playback) do not appeal to Apple because it would be in direct competition to the iTMS, and that’s why they have not taken the first steps towards proper Blu-Ray integration. In other words, because that first step is not in Apple’s financial interests, it had directly effected their pro userbase. I’m not blaming Apple – that’s the financial reality. It just means that the interests of myself and Apple have diverged, and the cosy little closed world I had in Apple-land doesn’t look viable now in the long term.
Here’s a Steve Jobs reply yesterday to a complaint about Firewire:
His response (and these responses are pretty well documented and checked) is that all new HD camcorders use USB. True. He fails to mention that (as someone else here pointed out) the iApps on Macbooks encode all those HD long-gop streams like AVCHD (I have an AVCHD camcorder) to AIC, which is now unplayable on Macbooks, as they no longer have ANY means of connecting media drives in a manner fast enough to play them. Apparently this irony is lost on Jobs. I think the article makes some interesting points, but adds near the end:
“Even so, many argue that Apple’s move appears built to upsell any serious user to the MacBook Pro, which starts at $800 more than the entry level new MacBook, despite the fact that Apple continues to sell the previous-generation white MacBook, with FireWire intact, for $300 less than the new aluminum MacBooks.”
Hmmm.
Edit Out Ltd
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FCP Editor/Trainer/System Consultant
EVS/VT Supervisor for live broadcast
RED camera transfer/post
Independent Director/Producer -
Oh – something else in my RSS filters today:
https://www.engadget.com/2008/10/16/amex-digital-does-what-steve-wouldnt-intros-portable-blu-ray-b/
Edit Out Ltd
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FCP Editor/Trainer/System Consultant
EVS/VT Supervisor for live broadcast
RED camera transfer/post
Independent Director/Producer
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