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New FCPX user, what’s all the hate about?
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[Sebastian Alvarez] “. It takes ages to analyze and solve, sometimes it leaves you with terrible results, and worse of all, it saves its data to the project file, so after you used it in even one small clip, it takes at least ten seconds to save the project, and if you use it in a long take, it will render your project useless, to the point where you have to go back to a previous version because it will simply not open, even if you wait all night long. And I speak from experience.”
Out of curiosity how long were the clips you were using the Warp Stabilizer on? Last year I did a project where I used WS a lot and never ran into the problems you described, but I only used it on clips that were around 3-6 seconds long.
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[Andrew Kimery] “Out of curiosity how long were the clips you were using the Warp Stabilizer on? Last year I did a project where I used WS a lot and never ran into the problems you described, but I only used it on clips that were around 3-6 seconds long.”
In this case it wasn’t a professional job, just a video of a wedding shot with a camcorder. There was a take that was 12 minutes long that he asked me to stabilize. The light was great, it was 1080i-29.97fps, so it wasn’t a big challenge, besides, the part of that take that he wanted stabilized was shot handheld but it was mostly static, at most panning every now and then.
Mercalli in Edius took it like a champ. About 6 minutes later it had finished and I was able to playback the footage in real time, no dropped frames. Saving the project took less than a second. We’re talking about a 32 bit program with obviously a 32 bit plugin.
Same take into Premiere CC 2014 (I’ve had this video since 2010 but I tested it in all versions of Premiere since CS6), same in and out points. Analyzing took hours. Solving took less time but still long enough to go do something else. What I was left with wasn’t bad as far as stabilizing quality goes, however, playback would stall (even though it was being played out of an SSD and WP is CUDA accelerated, and in my case I have two GTX770 cards with 4 GB each). When hitting CTRL+S, it took about an hour to save that project, which was a test project so it only had this take with a sequence that matched the format of the footage.
A little while later, even after rebooting the computer, I tried to open the project and it stalled. I kept waiting minutes, then hours, then I went to bed and the next morning it was still there, stalled. I killed Premiere, rebooted the computer, tried to open the project again and I left to do some other things. Hours later, still stalled.
My Windows PC, by the way, has an i7 3930k (6 cores at 3.2Ghz, 3.8 Ghz turbo), 32 GB of RAM, fast hard drives and an SSD (back then, now I took out the SSD to put it in a USB 3 enclosure and use it with my MBP), added to the two graphics cards I mentioned, so it’s no slouch. I assembled this machine with all the components tested for compatibility and it’s faster and more stable than any brand PC you can come across, as is usually the case with computers assembled by users when they make sure all the components match in the HCL.
So forgive my candor, but Warp Stabilizer, as far as software goes, is garbage. I consider myself far less intelligent than software programmers, and yet for the life of me I can’t begin to understand why Adobe’s team would attach the analyzed and solved information to the project file, when almost everything else is handled in different files. Caches of all kinds, peak files, etc, all in separate files, so when you save a Premiere project, as long as it doesn’t have WP on any clip, it takes a second or two to save. Add WP to just one short clip, saving will be about ten to twenty seconds. Add it to a few more clips and the save time gets longer and the project file size gets gigantic.
As much as I love FCPX, the advances in Premiere make it an excellent NLE, but I don’t get why Adobe keeps bundling this junk plugin with it. They bought I don’t know how many companies, they should buy ProDAD and put Mercalli instead of WP.
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[Sebastian Alvarez] “So forgive my candor, but Warp Stabilizer, as far as software goes, is garbage. I consider myself far less intelligent than software programmers, and yet for the life of me I can’t begin to understand why Adobe’s team would attach the analyzed and solved information to the project file, when almost everything else is handled in different files. Caches of all kinds, peak files, etc, all in separate files, so when you save a Premiere project, as long as it doesn’t have WP on any clip, it takes a second or two to save. Add WP to just one short clip, saving will be about ten to twenty seconds. Add it to a few more clips and the save time gets longer and the project file size gets gigantic.”
I agree (and have feature-requested) that the stabilization data should be saved outside of the project file. But I am sympathetic to the argument doing so would create non-media media that needs to be managed, and that it may run counter to user expectations about how built-in effects work.
Personally, I cheat and do my stabilizations in seperate project(s), render out new media, and use that in editorial.
Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive | RenderBreak [blog] | Profile [LinkedIn] -
Actually, that’s likely the lovely world of autocorrect in play.
Try just switching the extension to .mov
Which both QuickTime and AVFoundation can read.Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com – video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.
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Andrew,
Maybe that is why they moved to a ‘one size fits all’ approach with CC.
But really, that’s all part of the ‘pricing strategy’. I’ve never been a fan
of that approach with cable TV either. Get all these channels you never
watch and feel like you are getting a great deal because you get 200
channels for $200 a month instead of 20 channels for $175 a month. But
the only channels you watch are in the 20 channel package….so is it
‘Really’ a good deal to buy the 200 channel package?Maybe it would make more sense if I said it this way. Small households who
only watch 20 channels can get a good deal for $175 and get all 20
channels they need. Bigger households who watch more TV can get 200 channels
for only $200 which is a pretty good deal. Small households could also go
for the 200 channels for $200 even though the channels they watch are in the
20 channel package. Some may want to do this to keep options open.
Plus they like the DVR the 200 channel package comes with better….
even though you have to ‘rent’ it and give it back to the cable company
When you cancel service 🙂
I’m just joking….but I still think there kind of needs to be a compelling
reason for a small person shop to go CC over FCP X…..because hey it
costs more! Now there are plenty of reasons and some of the main ones are
if you are a PC owner, a AE power user, need to exchange Adobe files with
others, or have clients who use Adobe. Those ‘seem’ to me, to be reasons
more often associated with bigger companies (ok not the PC owner thing but
the rest of them :). Of course a person may just
prefer the ‘workspace’ of Adobe and be willing to pay extra for that as well.
Goodness knows, we Apple users have shown people will pay extra for things
like that. But because of those ‘one person shops’ who are writing here
and telling me I’m wrong, I am now curious. For anyone who is a one
person shop and uses CC, why did you decide to use it? What advantages
does it offer for your business and how do you use it to make more money
than you could without it? I am not being sarcastic, I’m genuinely curious
about others and how they do things to make their company successful.Gabe Strong
G-Force Productions
http://www.gforcevideo.com -
[Gabe Strong] “. But
the only channels you watch are in the 20 channel package….so is it
‘Really’ a good deal to buy the 200 channel package?”If someone paid me $100/mo to go with the bigger package or $25/mo to go with the smaller package then, yes, it ‘really’ is a good deal to go with the bigger package. Unfortunately watching TV doesn’t earn me money like editing does. 😉
[Gabe Strong] “I’m just joking….but I still think there kind of needs to be a compelling
reason for a small person shop to go CC over FCP X…..because hey it
costs more!”Costing more is only one part of it. The other part is revenue generation. I’m a freelancer in LA and currently there are w-a-y more gigs using PPro than X (and I’m mean real gigs, not $100/project gigs on Craigs List). The amount of money I would lose by NOT subscribing to CC is exponentially more than the amount of money I pay to subscribe to CC. Choosing X over CC would save me in money in terms of costs, but it would kill me right now in terms of revenue. I currently have Avid, FCP 7, PPro and X installed on my machine (well, Resolve 11 too but its NLE capabilities aren’t there yet). X is the only one that I’m not up to speed on yet.
A couple years ago I was thinking about learning X but circumstances dictated that I learn PPro instead and I’m glad it worked out that way because of how PPro use is growing in my area. Now that I’m comfortable on PPro though I’m going to start getting into X in my free time.
Sure, my situation probably isn’t exactly what you are asking about, but I’m a small business guy too.
If one already has a deep and extensive knowledge base in AE, PS and PPro I think one needs a compelling reason to switch to Motion, X and Compressor.
If you are a small shop and you need to hire some extra hands to get through a busy patch (always a good problem to have) and you want everyone to use the same software for compatibility reasons then finding AE artists is probably going to be easier than finding Motion artists.
Choice is always a good thing too. I’ve been a Mac user for nearly 15yrs but I’m thinking about getting a PC to replace my ’09 MacPro because all the major apps I use now are cross platform. If I started really getting into X I’d obviously have to get a Mac but at least right now Avid and PPro looks like a pretty good combination in my neck of the industry.
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[Andrew Kimery] “If someone paid me $100/mo to go with the bigger package or $25/mo to go with the smaller package then, yes, it ‘really’ is a good deal to go with the bigger package. Unfortunately watching TV doesn’t earn me money like editing does. ;)”
Yup, that would be a good reason. Unfortunately, as a small shop, I do NOT have clients paying me to use
any particular software. Most of them don’t even know what NLE stands for. Besides, I thought you were talking about
the pricing and how it was a good deal because it was only $10 more to get all the CC apps than just
Premiere and AE. That was the part I was referring to with my ‘cable bundle’ comparison. I didn’t mean to
confuse the issue, sorry about that.[Andrew Kimery] “Costing more is only one part of it. The other part is revenue generation. I’m a freelancer in LA and currently there are w-a-y more gigs using PPro than X (and I’m mean real gigs, not $100/project gigs on Craigs List). The amount of money I would lose by NOT subscribing to CC is exponentially more than the amount of money I pay to subscribe to CC. Choosing X over CC would save me in money in terms of costs, but it would kill me right now in terms of revenue. I currently have Avid, FCP 7, PPro and X installed on my machine (well, Resolve 11 too but its NLE capabilities aren’t there yet). X is the only one that I’m not up to speed on yet.
Sure, my situation probably isn’t exactly what you are asking about, but I’m a small business guy too.
“Well, I think this fits into what I was saying above as reasons to use CC. Either you are a PC guy. Or you are an
After Effects wiz. Or you have clients who use Adobe and to work with them you must too (This would be you!)
Now I was thinking that this scenario would be more prevalent with big companies instead of small one person
shops. That may not be the case at all, that was just my assumption that smaller shops work more with clients
who ‘don’t really know an NLE from an RBI’ and larger shops work with clients who want you to work with a
particular NLE/camera and so on. LA producers rumored to be some of the most picky. Although I did just shoot
for the ‘Alaskan Bush People’ yesterday and they just let me shoot on whatever camera I owned (which was
a FS700) even though that isn’t their normal camera they use for the show. So yeah, if you have clients
who require you to use Adobe, that is a perfect reason to use it. I certainly have never came across that once
in over 10 years of doing business, but I obviously live in a world that is about as far from LA as possible….both
literally and figuratively.[Andrew Kimery] “If one already has a deep and extensive knowledge base in AE, PS and PPro I think one needs a compelling reason to switch to Motion, X and Compressor.”
Again, yeah, that would be at least close to one of my reasons which was ‘If you are an AE whiz’. You
obviously (and rightly) expanded on my abbreviated reason and pointed out the Photoshop and Premiere Pro
whizes also have compelling reasons to stay with Adobe. For sure.[Andrew Kimery] “If you are a small shop and you need to hire some extra hands to get through a busy patch (always a good problem to have) and you want everyone to use the same software for compatibility reasons then finding AE artists is probably going to be easier than finding Motion artists.”
I wish I had that problem. Much too small to really even think of that as a possibility at this point. Small town
problems being what they are, my chances of finding someone good in either one are somewhere between -1 and 0.
Not that I’d ever really be able to afford to hire one anyways….which is why I just go with whatever (very limited)
motion graphics I can myself create. I think one distinct possibility is that although we are both ‘small one person
shops’…..at the same time we have widely differing definitions of ‘small one person shop’. 🙂 Strange how that works.
Hopefully that made some sort of sense….in an alternate universe or something anyways. 🙂Gabe Strong
G-Force Productions
http://www.gforcevideo.com -
[Gabe Strong] “That was the part I was referring to with my ‘cable bundle’ comparison. I didn’t mean to confuse the issue, sorry about that.”
I kinda didn’t complete my thought either. With paying a little more for the whole bundle I am getting a lot of apps I’ll never use, but I’m also getting apps that might be useful but I never would have given the time of day before. SpeedGrade, for example, I doubt I’d ever pay for a standalone version, but SG comes with the bundle (and has integration w/PPro that I find interesting) so I’m like, “Why not dig into i? I’ve already paid for it.”
Oddly enough, going back to the cable analogy, after being a cord cutter for many years I recently went back to cable and I watch a much wider variety of shows now than I did before. I’m more willing to give different shows chances because it’s already paid for. When I ponied up $2-3 per episode on Amazon I only did it for shows that I knew I really wanted to watch and I felt like were worth the cost. For example, I watch a lot of “How it’s Made” on cable, but I would never pay $2-3 per episode for it.
Where is this analogy going? I have no idea, other than that there’s a lot of different shoes out there so hopefully we all find a style that we like in a pair that fits.
[Gabe Strong] ” I certainly have never came across that once
in over 10 years of doing business, but I obviously live in a world that is about as far from LA as possible….both
literally and figuratively.
“What do you mean, yer just up the coast! We are at least in the same Time Zone. 😉
[Gabe Strong] “Much too small to really even think of that as a possibility at this point. Small town
problems being what they are, my chances of finding someone good in either one are somewhere between -1 and 0.”A buddy of mine had the opening titles for his indie film done in India. Yeah, I know globalization can be a touchy subject but it’s a thing so… If you want to keep it American made you could put up a posting for students looking for some beer money. Might not be applicable now, but just something to keep in the back of your head incase it becomes applicable down the road since things like GFX are pretty easy to do remotely.
[Gabe Strong] ” I think one distinct possibility is that although we are both ‘small one person
shops’…..at the same time we have widely differing definitions of ‘small one person shop’. 🙂 Strange how that works.”It is, and it’s one reason it’s so exciting to be in the industry right now. There are so many different facets to it and we can all get on the Internet and disagree with each other, er, I mean share information with each other! 😉
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[Andrew Kimery] “I kinda didn’t complete my thought either. With paying a little more for the whole bundle I am getting a lot of apps I’ll never use, but I’m also getting apps that might be useful but I never would have given the time of day before. SpeedGrade, for example, I doubt I’d ever pay for a standalone version, but SG comes with the bundle (and has integration w/PPro that I find interesting) so I’m like, “Why not dig into i? I’ve already paid for it.”
Oddly enough, going back to the cable analogy, after being a cord cutter for many years I recently went back to cable and I watch a much wider variety of shows now than I did before. I’m more willing to give different shows chances because it’s already paid for. When I ponied up $2-3 per episode on Amazon I only did it for shows that I knew I really wanted to watch and I felt like were worth the cost. For example, I watch a lot of “How it’s Made” on cable, but I would never pay $2-3 per episode for it.”
Yeah, that makes sense. Prelude and Speed Grade are both apps that I probably normally would not
use but if I had already paid for them and actually had any spare time to play around with…..oops
so much for that idea 🙂 But I totally can see where a person might learn how to use them since they
already paid for them. I used to dabble with Color a little bit in my Final Cut Studio 7 days, but again
I really didn’t have the time to learn it properly so I just stood at the edge, dipped my toe in, and learned
to do a couple ‘tricks’ with it.As for cable, I ‘cut the cord’ at least 6 years ago) and have never regretted it a bit. I will
never pay for cable TV again….never. Of course I’m also that strange person who works
creating ‘moving images’ but never watches TV. Give me a basketball and a court any
day of the week over a show on TV.[Andrew Kimery] “What do you mean, yer just up the coast! We are at least in the same Time Zone. ;)”
Ha! A common misconception. Unless of course LA changed from Pacific Time to Alaska Time 🙂
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Time_Zone
I did drive from Alaska to LA once time and spent 6 months or so there hanging out, working cheap
Craigslist gigs for cash and making locals gasp when I jumped in the ocean in November (OMG isn’t it COLD?)
It sure did seem like a long drive…..couple thousand miles anyways. But if you were in a boat you might be
able to cut a few of those miles off 🙂[Andrew Kimery] “A buddy of mine had the opening titles for his indie film done in India. Yeah, I know globalization can be a touchy subject but it’s a thing so… If you want to keep it American made you could put up a posting for students looking for some beer money. Might not be applicable now, but just something to keep in the back of your head incase it becomes applicable down the road since things like GFX are pretty easy to do remotely. “
Yeah, the internet has opened up all sorts of possibilities. I hire remote VO artists (many from LA) on a
semi regular basis. I buy music from all manner of great sites. I’m sure I could get a graphics person.
I just don’t have enough work to need that as I’m in a town of 30,000 that is basically an island town.
(Technically we are on the mainland. But since glaciers and ocean keep us from having any roads into or
out of town, a person must fly or take a boat to get here.) To be honest, I can usually keep up with everything myself,
but when I need someone it’s usually an extra camera op or lighting assistant to help me with the production end.
But it is pretty neat that a person could find extra post help out there on ‘the web’. Although I would guess that you’d
have to be careful out there. I’d probably tend to stay with someone, once I found a good person because there’s all
kinds of scammers out there.[Andrew Kimery] “It is, and it’s one reason it’s so exciting to be in the industry right now. There are so many different facets to it and we can all get on the Internet and disagree with each other, er, I mean share information with each other! 😉
“Totally agreed. But this is a tame disagreement if that. We MUST up the ‘drama’ to increase the viewership.
That’s something I learned from working on the ‘Anything but Reality’ shows.Gabe Strong
G-Force Productions
http://www.gforcevideo.com -
[Gabe Strong] “Ha! A common misconception. Unless of course LA changed from Pacific Time to Alaska Time 🙂
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Time_Zone“Nuts. Ya know, I thought about Googling it before I made the comment… Learn something new every day!
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