NEW EDITING PC NEEDED. (and maybe new editing software)

[John Rofrano]

[Mike Allgeier] “So, if you were going to consider another editing program, what would you be looking at (or maybe some of you use something else as well as SVP), and why?”

On Windows there is nothing that can replace Vegas Pro IMHO. Adobe has lost it’s way. They expect you to rent their software and when you stop paying the rental fee the software stops working (i.e., they kick you out into the street). That is definitely not a solution for a hobbyist. Nothing really lost because I wouldn’t use Premiere Pro if it were free and I mean that because I’ve had it as part of CS4, CS5.5 and CS6 and I have never used it. I tried to use it several times and it takes 4 or 5 more steps to do anything in Premiere than it does in Vegas. Totally unproductive. AVID isn’t an option because they expect you to change your entire way of editing using different modes and pretending like we’re all still using scissors and tape and bins to hold things. Completely archaic. It might be great if you’re editing a blockbuster movie but to quickly edit home movies, it’s too regimented. I’ve never tried Edius so that may be an option I don’t know. For me, Vegas Pro is the only choice.

On a Mac, I would use Final Cut Pro X. FCP X is easy to learn, works a lot like Vegas Pro and edits as smooth as silk on my MacBook Pro with only an NVIDIA GeForce GT 650m. I’m hoping that Sony is working on porting Vegas Pro to the Mac but until then, FCP X is what I use on my Mac. But just to give you perspective, features that are being introduced into FCP 10.1 that are all the rage have been in Vegas Pro for years and years. It’s laughable how behind other NLE’s are. IMHO, Vegas Pro still outshines them all.

As far as building a PC goes, I built my last workstation using the VideoGuys DIY9 specs. Here is my complete build: Intel Hex Core Video Editing Workstation. I use an NVIDIA Quadro 4000 which is based on the Fermi architecture and works well with Vegas Pro. I think a Quadro is overkill for a hobbyist. As far as Vegas Pro not taking full advantage of the Kepler cards, that is rather unfortunate and I assume Sony will fix this at some point.

GPU acceleration is such a tiny part of the Vegas Pro experience, I wouldn’t care if it worked or not and I certainly wouldn’t change NLE’s just because it didn’t work. My advice is to stick with Vegas Pro, buy the best video card you can, and wait for Sony to catch up. (actually, my advice would be to buy a Mac but I understand you want to build a computer with your sons so I realize you have other reasons for wanting to stick with a PC) 😉

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com

[Dave Haynie]

I completely agree with John on this. I have tried some of the others: Premiere, Edius, and there’s really nothing that compares to Vegas. Sure, you may find some small thing you like better about any package… and you can find things to hate about any of these, just visit support sites like this one for these other programs.

Beyond that, these others systems have always seemed clumsy to me. Vegas just does what it’s supposed to do, and doesn’t get in my way… I’ve even done 40-50 track audio-only projects in Vegas. That’s one of my main issues… other NLEs are not also first-class DAWs. Vegas is.

As for the GPU, I use the same AMD Radeon HD6970 that I had in my previous PC. It can still double performance under some circumstances, and I have no reason to belive at this point that spending more money on a GPU will get me any measurable return in Vegas. You may chose a pro-class video card, but that’s going be driven by a need for other things, I don’t think it offers much in Vegas. Things may be a bit bumpier in nVidia land… not always a bad thing. nVidia got there first with CUDA, so more applications support CUDA than OpenCL. CUDA is also more architecture dependent (which is exactly why there is an OpenCL(you can even run OpenCL on an x86 CPU, though it’s not usually as efficient as a native x86 app), rather than everyone just licensing or cloning CUDA), which makes performance improvements more dependent on application coding. But as John pointed out, GPU acceleration is only small all part of the whole thing. A faster CPU helps everywhere.

I built a new PC last summer, and came pretty close to the Videoguys’ DIY9. I used a 960GB SSD, I put in a 6GB RAID10, 64GB of DRAM (for photography, never needed for video), and a few other different parts… but pretty much the same specs. So I’d recommend their system as an excellent starting point. Editing multiple AVCHD and Canon video streams these days is “like butter” for the most part. What more do you want?

Sure, I’d like to see Vegas do much more with GPCPU computing. I have a few empty slots for additional GPU cards, if they get there at some point. But GPUs aren’t doing anything that profound on anyone’s platform.

-Dave

[Mike Allgeier]

WOW! Thanks John & David! Both of your replies are incredibly informative and helpful. Well, it’s kind of a relief to not have to worry about financing a new PC AND new software. I’m happy with SVP, I understand the workflow and how to do most of what I want to do so now if I can get the components figured out I may be OK.

I checked out the VG DIY9 build and it looks impressive. I also checked out your build John and priced it using today’s prices via PCPARTSPICKER.com. Nice machine!! Now that you’ve had it for awhile and have gotten it burned in, is there anything about the build you would have done differently or would like to change?

One more question I’ve got is: Would you recommend staying where I’m at with SVP, moving on up to VP12 or waiting until VP13 comes out then decide?

Thanks guys!

Mike

HP HDX16
Intel Core 2 Duo P8400 2.26GHz
320GB HDD
4GB RAM
Sound Forge 7
Vegas Pro 10
Presonus Firestudio

[Dave Haynie]

Vegas Pro 10 did very little with the GPU. The full support started in VP11, got better in VP12, but there’s plenty of room for improvement. That’s hopefully on the bill for VP13, and I’d expect it sooner than later.

As for switching horses, I haven’t been 100% satisfied with Vegas at every twist and turn, but overall, pretty satisfied. And most of the annoyances have amounted to rare but present bugs in what I once described as “the single most reliable piece of software I have used in any industry”… which was Vegas, back in the SF days.

I would also really, really think 2^N times about signing up for a “software as a subscription” product of any kind. It’s pretty much left up to Sony to offer me a reason to upgrade Vegas, which can be a combination of features, price, and perhaps other-product bundle-ins… all of which they’ve done. But if I don’t upgrade, that’s what I’m giving up, and that alone.

When it’s software as a service, they’re getting your money every month for doing essentially nothing. You stop paying, you not only lose access to the product, but to your own work made with that product, something that can’t ever happy with a software for sale model. They certainly can choose to update the product, and they certainly will. But those updates no longer need to be things that sell the product… they need to keep you from jumping ship, but that’s about it.

If you look at any number of other subscription-type sales models, they all pretty much devolve to offering the least amount of service needed to keep the most subscribers. Your cable or satellite TV provider is building their service with the knowledge that they probably will lose 2-3% of subscribers (or something like that) every year. These are the hardest to please, and they have found that it’s cheaper to attract new viewers. What isn’t made so clear is that, while some subscribers are perfectly happy, there are also some — sometimes many — who are just south of jumping that fence. And sometimes for years… “if it got any worse, I’d leave”. Case in point.. in late 2012/early 2013, I had just crossed that threshold with both my TV and ISP. And those were things that could be pretty much just replaced in-kind. Which suggests, not that Adobe’s there yet, but they could easily get to being worse than that in a fairly short time. And there’s no drop-in replacement for their exact functionality, their file formats, etc.

-Dave

[John Rofrano]

[Mike Allgeier] “Now that you’ve had it for awhile and have gotten it burned in, is there anything about the build you would have done differently or would like to change?”

Personally, I would have used the ASUS P9X79 WS motherboard instead of the PRO because the WS model has IEEE 1394a Firewire built in. That would have allowed me to use the forward facing firewire port on my case. Instead, I had to buy a separate firewire card but the connector is now in the back and it’s extremely inconvenient to switch firewire cables to connect my cameras and drives. So if you still have firewire devices the WS might be a better choice. Other than that, I’m very happy with the build. It’s been a very solid platform.

[Mike Allgeier] “Would you recommend staying where I’m at with SVP, moving on up to VP12 or waiting until VP13 comes out then decide?”

Vegas Pro 10.0 was as solid as a rock. Unless you have a compelling reason to upgrade, I would stay with what you have until you build a new computer. That would be my advice.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com