Need advice quick!

[Steve Martin]

So is the agency providing all the creative (i.e concept, storyboards, script, graphic elements, etc…)? Any pre-production (i.e shot planning, location scout/permitting, production coordination, casting, etc…) on your part?

I ask, because if they are handling all these elements, all you’re really doing is providing “below the line” technical services and it’s pretty easy to put together a proposal/estimate:

X numbers of days for equipment at $??/day
Camera operator @ $??/day
Audio Engineer@ ??/day
Gaffer @ ??/day
other crew @ ??/day
X number of hours editing @ ??/hour

and so on… you can break each line item down as much (or as little) as you want/need to depending on the complexity of the project.

Make sure you (and your client) understand who is directing the shoot and making final creative decisions. If it’s them, that’s not to say that you don’t have input and make suggestions – but ultimately it’s their show and their responsibility.

If on the other hand, you are responsible for creative development and direction, there’s nothing quick about it. You need to slow down and ask enough questions until you have a complete understanding of the scope of work.

Then AND ONLY THEN, can you even begin to write a proposal that addresses your ability to provide those services and the corresponding fees that you will charge to do so.

Good luck!

Production is fun – but lets not forget: Nobody ever died on the video table!

[Shane Jenny]

Phenomenal advice! That’s exactly what I needed.

I am not handling any of the creative aspects of the job nor the pre-production. I’m shooting the web commercial and editing it.

So how should I lay this thing out? Should I do a summary, then list pre-production (ie. time it will take for lighting setup, audio, etc.), then list post-production and a summary of what we’ll be doing? I’m having trouble coming up with the vocabulary, I’m that green (which is okay, my point of contact at the agency is my best friend who is having a fun time watching me fumble around with this).

“Just along for the ride”

[Steve Martin]

There’s no right or wrong way to lay it out. And sometimes i use a different approach depending on the client.

If you want to draw very clear lines (almost always preferable) about:

• What services you will perform,
• For how long and

How much each element will cost

a line item approach might be best. Typically we show day rates for people (10 hour days) and equipment. With hourly rates for editing, graphics, etc… Over time you get better and estimating how long things take. If things take longer than you estimated, you can decide if it’s because you’re slow, you misjudged the project or if the client bears some (or all!) of the responsibility for the overrun. At that point you can decide what (if any) changes there should be on the final invoice.

If you and your client have a good understanding for the scope of work and it’s all very simple and straight forward, a flat fee for the project might be OK. But you have to be very careful with flat fees because once there’s no “cost differential” the scope of work tends to expend dramatically as clients try to add things or get you to redo things for free because of their own poor planning.

That’s when disagreements pop up and your best friend might not be any longer!

I hope this helps!

Steve

Production is fun – but lets not forget: Nobody ever died on the video table!

[Nick Griffin]

At the risk of making this seem complicated, here’s the left side of the spreadsheet we use to develop pricing:

Pre-Production
Meeting & planning, Pre-scripting
Shot list development & finalization of scripts
Location Scouting & site coordination

Production (Field or Studio Shooting)
Director / Cameraman
Producer / Senior Grip
Grip, Junior
PA / Script Supervisor
Equipment Rental (Lighting / Jib / Dolly)
XDCam Media
Actors (Union, On-Camera, Speaking)
Actors (non-union, non-speaking)
Stylist / Hair / Makeup
Props
Wardrobe
Location Fees
Airfare
Transportation & Lodging
Crew Meals / Day
Travel days

Post-Production
Audio
AFTRA Voiceover Talent
Voice-over recording session
Prod Music, small audience, no net, X min
Production Music, Unlimited use*, X min
Sweetening of Audio from Video (& Folly)

Video
Window burns (no one has asked for them in YEARS)
Transfer & Shot Logging
Non- Linear Editing (Suite & Editor/Director)
Off-Line Efx & Titling (Opens/Closes/etc)
Producer (seldom used at this stage)
Master to Digital Files
Mastering Disk Stock

Then we present each of the tasks, Pre-Production, Production, Post-Production as sub-totals so the individual costs aren’t picked at. This is a tiny portion of the standard budgeting sheets used by larger productions but it works for us and our clients.

[Shane Jenny]

You guys are incredible. I really appreciate the help. I’d give both of you a hug if I could, honestly.

Here’s what I came up with so far.

Summary
This proposal is for a 30 second web commercial and includes two high-definition cameras, two camera operators, production, and post-production. A sample render will be available for preview via web 1 week after shoot. Approval will be requested. Final output will be available for download via web.

Rates
A-Camera Operator $300/day
B-Camera Operator $300/day
8 hours of editing $50/hr
Re-edits $50/hr

Production
Crew will need 2-3 hours of setup of audio and lighting equipment at location prior to shoot.

Post-production
Post-production includes editing of footage, color-correction, color-grading, incorporating graphic elements, and royalty free music.

What do you guys think?

“Just along for the ride”

[Nick Griffin]

First, I think Steve’s comments were excellent.

To what you already have I would add editing, color grading, etc “to first cut” 8 hours, additional hours for client requested changes at $X/hr.

Also, are you getting any portion up-front? 1/3rd is normal so you can at least cover your crew costs.

[Shane Jenny]

Thanks for the comments Nick. Great stuff, I’m making that change now. Would I request 1/3rd upfront in the proposal? I haven’t even thought about that yet.

“Just along for the ride”

[Steve Martin]

Nice list Nick. I’m interested in your thoughts (and others too!) on how to bill travel days. We keep going round and round with clients & crew on this issue and would love to hear how others are handling it.

Do you guys typically charge full or discounted day rates for travel days.

It seems like a double edge sword. If you don’t charge for it your profit margins suffer. If travel costs get too high, it encourages clients to hire “local.” For some long term clients who really value the service you provide them, travel costs are a non-issue. For some, however, it’s a hard pill to swallow.

Thoughts?

Production is fun – but lets not forget: Nobody ever died on the video table!

[Mark Suszko]

Yes, it is customary to get a down payment or Production Deposit of a third to a half the total estimated cost before work begins. A popular method is to bill in thirds: one third up front to start, from which you pay your rentals and staff, the middle third is due at the first screening of the first draft, where they are going to give you any change orders they need executed.

The final third plus any overages is due when you hand over the master or other deliverable, and note, you DO NOT hand that over EVER until you get paid. You also watermark or otherwise brand any sample footage you hand over “for review at home”. If all they want to do is review it, the logo bug or time code window on the screen will not be a problem for them. If they complain they want to see a “clean copy”, before they decide to pay you, they are vey likely going to rip you off, so demand payment in full before you hand over a clean copy. Ask me how I know ths happens:-)

Contracts are never thought about when things go well, their value is in defining what happens when things go badly or unexpectedly. You can’t count on oral “understandings” to hold up in court. If it is not on paper and signed off, it never happened.

You will also want a clause or statement defining if this is a “work for hire”, and if the client owns all the raw footage and media and things like project files, or if you do. Typically, unless it is a work for hire or otherwise specified in writing, you retain ownership of the tapes and the raw footage, they only get the master that results from the edit process. If they want to make further edits or new product from old footage, they come back to you for a new contract and a new job. This needs to be understood by all parties and signed off before you start work, you can’t call ‘dibs” like this retroactively.

Typically, your project files and edit decision lists are retained by you as proprietary materials, but you may choose to sell those to a client that wants them (a rare thing). Think about what you want to charge for those, because with them, the unscrupulous client can cut you out of future repeat business by leveraging your creative work from the first job wothout paying you for more versions. Figure the rough cost of the editing work you may be giving away with those project files when you contemplate a price for the files.

You need a simple short statement that declares the policy for
lateness/cancellations by client/ postponement due to weather or unforseen circumstances. This has been the cause of a lot of drama when it isn’t understood ahead of time.

For example: “In the case of a client cancellation made at least three days prior to scheduled work, 100% of the deposit will be refunded. For cancellations within 24 hours of the scheduled work, a cancellation charge of x% will be applied to any refunds. Either party may cancel this project without prejudice or cost, up to one week prior to the first shooting day. Editing services may be cancelled at the end of the first rough cut stage and billed only for services and materials performed to that point” This clause protects you from being on the hook for rentals or staff booking (like hiring actors or shooters) that wasn’t put to billable use. Also, clients that book you take you out of circulation for other, lucrative work, so if they don’t come thru with the job, you would be out some money due to lost business opportunity. Ergo, the cancellation fee or penalty.

Your weather policy may be: “In cases where weather or acts of nature interfere with the execution of the scheduled work, work will be resumed the next available business day, and the client is responsible for any overages for rentals or personnel costs”. That is important because regardless if you got any useful shots that day or not, crew and actors and equipment renters made a COMMITMENT to you, they took time that could have made them money elsewhere to make themselves available to you. If you have to cancel, you owe them something for the effort and inconvenienece. Or, rather more smartly, the client owes them for it.

Your editing process should be defined: “Client has paid for x hours of editing time at N dollars per hour. Client is entitled to a screening copy of the first rough cut assembly edit for general review and approval purposes. Upon our receiving client’s approval or change orders, client will recieve one additional revised copy of the final edit with said changes, for re-approval. Further revisions to the product from that point will be billed at straight time and materials, payment due on delivery. The estimated hours to complete an edit are an approximation only, and any additional hours required for actual completion of the work will be billed at the #n per hour rate. Client must approve edittime overages beyond five additional editing hours. Duplicate copies are billed at $n cost. Error policy: We strive for perfection in our product. If we make an error of fact or technical detail on our part, we will make good a revision at no cost. Mistakes caused by incorrect client-supplied information will be repaired at our standard hourly rate, billable to the client, and all such services are due to be paid upon delivery”

This means if YOU misspell the client’s title on a lower third, for example, you fix it for free. If they gave you a written spelling that they spelled wrong, or want to add a whole new section not in the original plan, that’s on them; they should be more organized. The clause also protects you from being stuck making endless revisions for free and never getting paid for any of the time spent.

This way, they get one rough cut, for which they make any notes for changes, and they have to make their minds up. The next cut should then be exactly right, and also free, but if they still want more changes after that, now they have to pay more. I came up with this clause and the others thru hard-won practical experience. Take advantage of my pain and avoid some for yourself.

[Mark Suszko]

A lot of guys bill travel at a half-rate. It still takes you out of prductive work so ti has to cost *something*.

I think the smarter guys just embed those costs in other parts of the rate, and never really mention it. When you get into large budget projects, it becomes so small an issue that it almost shouldn’t matter.

The last time I did a corporate gig was long ago, but they offered to handle the air and hotel thru their own travel agent at a large discount, and they thus knew they weren’t getting overcharged for that, so it wasn’t part of my bill on that gig, but I did put in a per diem for travel to cover a couple burgers and sodas and cab fare that would other wise be out-of-pocket before getting paid.

Travel time should be figured portal-to-portal: from the time you leave your driveway to the time you hit theirs, and the same on the return.