My turn to seek advice

[Bob Woodhead]

You’re better than the others who failed. You saved the project for the Exec. Prod. You’ve enabled him to finally realize his dream of getting the project finished at feature length. Finally, you’re not taking credit for writing or producing. Top editor credit should be a no-brainer. But I’d say that you’re due add’tl credit (not top line) for writing as well.

[Bob Cole]

Well, naturally, I agree with you as to the “shoulds” of this. It’s the “how” that puzzles me.

Absent a legal approach…

It sounds as though the EP is responding to emotional blackmail from the prior editor. So tell the EP that you can’t afford (“emotionally and professionally”) to spend a half-year on a project without receiving the appropriate credit for your work on it. And find a way to let him deal with his emotional blackmail issues by coming up with a nice credit for the prior editor. Could she have been an assistant producer, in some remote sense?

Hey David, at least you were working on something that you WANTED credit for.

— Bob C

[David Roth weiss]

All good Bob… More grist for the mill.

Problem is, I’m now inclined to drop down into second gear for the duration of the project. Throughout my career I’ve always prided myself on having one gear, which has always been full speed ahead. But, if treated unfairly on this one I will almost certainly lose the will to go the extra mile.

DRW

[David Roth weiss]

Thanks for your support Bob.

[Ron Lindeboom]

I am sitting here in my office with a large mounted poster of the 1939 classic “The Wizard of OZ” on the wall.

The film’s direction is credited to Victor Fleming (actually the 3rd director on the project, there would be four altogether), a man who took over the project after Richard Thorpe took unsuccessful attempts at capturing the magic of the books and George Cukor came in to take over (and later left to direct “Gone With the Wind”). Victor Fleming picked up the pieces and quickly turned out a classic. He kept some shots, created many new ones, tweaked the dialog and reshot some scenes that had already been in the can. He would later leave TWOZ and complete “Gone With the Wind” after George Cukor was taken off that project, as well. King Vidor would come in and finish off the Kansas farm scenes, hardly enough to earn him the “last man standing” credit, which fell to Victor Fleming. Victor Fleming would also end up with the credit for GWTW, as he did the most on it.

From reading your post, David, I would say that you arguably did “the most” and pulled it out of the fire. The “last man standing” rule also has a variant that in Hollywood gives the credit to the man or woman who “was standing the longest” and whose vision was the one used. Richard Thorpe didn’t get the credit and when George Cukor took over, all Richard’s work was chucked as his vision of the film was just not in keeping with what the producers had in mind. When George Cukor left for “Gone With the Wind,” Victor Fleming took over and fine-tuned and crafted what became a masterpiece, a film that is today said to be the most viewed film of all time. While King Vidor’s Kansas farm scenes are indeed superb, the credit falls to Fleming, not the last man standing but the one who stood the longest and whose vision is the most pronounced in the film.

Based on this story, I’d say that the executive producer needs to admit that you are and have been the editor, and arguably the co-producer in many ways, on this project.

You may not have directed it but you sure sound like you have indeed crafted it and it is your vision that has most shaped the story at this point.

Thanks for letting me tell a story. It’s the grandpa in me…

;o)

Ron Lindeboom

[David Roth weiss]

Great film lore Ron. And, its definitely food for thought. Nowadays however, the “last man standing” rule applies more than it once did. The unions try to arbitrate these matters in the most expeditious and businesslike manner, often casting creative input aside as it so often requires a judgement call thay are willing to make.

Oddly, the previous editor is a member of the Editor’s Guild, and I am confident that the guild would not rule in her favor. My union would also probably rule in my favor, but, as this is a non-union project, this of course is all moot.

When considering all the creative aspects, each of us added much to the project, and I am really quite willing share the credit. I’m certainly not satisfied with Editorial Consultant any longer, but I’m just not quite sure how far I should take the dispute. I have worked with this guy for a long time, and though he’s sometimes tough to deal with in some ways, he’s been very good to me over the long haul. Thats what makes the situation a bit tougher for me than it might normally be.

DRW

[Michael Munkittrick]

Everything that you

[Mark Raudonis]

DRW,

This is what agents and lawyers are for!

If that’s not an option for you, I gotta ask, did you have a deal memo before you started stating what the credit would be?

If you’re tuned into Hollywood enough to know about the “last man standing” rule, then surely you’re wise enough to demand a deal memo upon starting a project. Absent that,
it’s time to suck it up, confront your nemesis and demand what you feel you’re owed. You may not want a confrontation, but clearly this is bothering you or you wouldn’t have posted. You know what you’ve got to do… so get to it. Good luck!

Mark

[Chris Bové]

[David Roth Weiss] “He feels a certain emotional bond to the previous editor because she ended up with hurt feelings last time around”

This isn’t handing out lollypops at the dentist’s office. He should deal with her emotions in other currencies than credit, if you know what I mean. Credits have nothing to do with emotion. They’re an account of work done. Did he list his Mom as “Creative Consultant”?

Flip side, I do know that in my little world most of the preproduction editing (for funding videos, and even early rough cuts of dailies, etc.) goes uncredited sometimes. He could be classifying all this prior work you’ve done as content that has little impact on the final version. No matter if he’s correct or not, perhaps it’s a situation where he’s simply holding onto his cards tightly – just to see if you fold?

______
/-o-o-\
\`(=)`/…Pixel Monkey
`(___)

Just finished editing “Frank Lloyd Wright’s Buffalo” – see it on PBS Sept 4, 2006 at 10pm.
(Yes, that is Labor Day)

[Mark Suszko]

Why are we even talking about the earlier, shorter versions? I feel like you should only be negotiating over the current full-length project, which was 100 percent your work. Let the girlfriend or whatever have her credit on the shorter version(s). She did not work on this long version at all, did she?

Yes, you should have had a deal memo in place first, but there’s no use complaining about that now.

Seems to me all the confusion is because everyone is considering the three programs to be one identical program. But the only information I’m working from is what you posted. Good luck with it.