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My major beef
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[Scott Witthaus] “Expand the tracks, pull one audio under another to your liking and use the “little fader button” on each side”
The fade handles are so great, yet can be tedious when massaging the in/out points for making an asymmetrical dissolve (something that fcpx doesn’t have without a whole lot of trickery).
I wish there was a kb shortcut to put a 3 frame (or selectable number) of fade handle on each side of the clip. Select an audio cut or adjoining clip, hit the button, and then trim handles (which are already kb selectable).
The cross dissolve, in my opinion, should not have any effect on audio because audio can be manipulated separately, and usually needs to be handled separately.
Sure, there are workarounds, like expanding everything, or using opacity handles on video, fade handles on audio, both of which take a much longer time than to simply hit a kb shortcut for a dissolve.
But, I will admit that the are transitions that are nice to be able to put on the top layer of a stack of video and have them all be effected. That does save time, but only if you need that function. Once you don’t need that function, you spend a lot of time making weird compound layers to force a different order of composite.
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After reading your post I thought up a new signature. Editing in FCP X is like playing Russian Egg Roulette as you never know when you will pick a raw egg.
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It seems that to correctly follow the FCPX paradigm, something other than an actual audio dissolve would be the proper design.
1. You need a video-only transition without expanding. Seems like a simple modifier to the existing effect command would accomplish this.
2. To do an audio-only crossfade, you actually need something that’s just a macro. It would “invisibly” extend the two sides at the audio cut and add the appropriate fade to each, based on the entered duration.
3. And while we are at it, it would be nice if Apple adopted the Media Composer way of applying dissolves and crossfades. With FCPX as with PProCC, it’s always a center default. In MC, a dialogue box opens that lets you apply a duration plus a value for the front part of the transition. So 30-tab-30-enter results in a 30 frame transition ending at the cut. 30-tab-0-enter results in a 30 frame transition starting at the cut. And any combination in-between.
4. Speaking of fade handles, it would sure be nice if FCPX borrowed from Logic Pro X in how fades are applied. That’s a far more intuitive and less “fiddly” way to apply them.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
Ditto. It should be there, but it has forced me into better audio with asymmetric fades. I rarely ever do a symmetrical audio dissolve. I now tend to stretch out the outgoing audio of an interview as long as possible under the next edit, then fade it out, and do the same with the incoming, fading it in as soon as possible over the outgoing edit. Both the edits are done to the sample, and not to the frame.
And what everyone may have overlooked is that audio cross dissolves potentially interfere with the whole idea of the magnetic timeline. If you move a chunk of audio that is cross dissolved to another that isn’t moving, which chunk keeps the dissolve? Neither? But If you instead are using fade handles, the audio elements exist on their own and can be moved about freely. The same holds true for video of course, but there are so many types of video transitions that it’s not feasible anyway.
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[Bill Davis] “Just worth discussing. That’s all.”
I agree. I’ve always felt the most interesting part of this forum is the exposure to the multiplicity of workflows that are used by the editors who contribute here.
My biases, and I imagine this is true for most, are based on past history and the nature of the work I generally do. My earliest work was in 16mm film and most of the work I do today is multi-camera; the former almost totally double system, the latter discourages the notion of audio being connected to something since your almost always cutting your video against audio recorded on a different camera. Now this doesn’t mean all multi-camera guys cut like I do, I know for a fact that most don’t, but it has influenced the way I personally work and the way I teach assistant editors who have worked for me.
I’m not an absolutest about this, if I have a simple talking head with some B-roll I might leave the audio connected, but for anything more complex than that I want every element floating free. I have all sorts of philosophical arguments to justify my choices, but the truth is it’s just the way I like to work.
And as to audio dissolves, it is my common technique, once I’m at the fine cut stage to add a 3 frame audio dissolve to every dialogue and EFX edit. I do this with a global command. When I do my final passes I will adjust many and delete some of these dissolves, but in the end I would guess that 90% of my audio edits have some sort of cross dissolve in the final timeline. I find this finesses all sorts of cross breathing and subtle changes in room tone. This technique is probably a result of my working so often on cooking shows, where the ambient sound changes moment to moment, and the whole idea of room tone seems rather quaint.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin\’ attached to nothin\’
\”Deciding the spine is the process of editing\” F. Bieberkopf -
“once I’m at the fine cut stage to add a 3 frame audio dissolve to every dialogue and EFX edit.”
I follow this same process in Avid, FCP “classic” and Premiere. Have for years. It’s a great way to finesse your audio.
Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
See, THIS is why we hang out here and debate stuff.
Inside the discussion – sometimes comes illumination.
Thanks Herb, for taking the time to write about this.
It was very interesting to me.
Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com – video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.
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[Oliver Peters] “I follow this same process in Avid, FCP “classic” and Premiere. Have for years. It’s a great way to finesse your audio.
“Me three on the adding of 2-3 frame dissolves on dialog edits. I’ve done it for as long as I can remember.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “I wish there was a kb shortcut to put a 3 frame (or selectable number) of fade handle on each side of the clip.”
Simple. Do it on one clip first, save that as an effect preset, make it your default effect, bingo… ⌥E is your new best friend.
You just have to do it FIRST not LAST to avoid replacing any other changes to the audio you might have made.
– RK
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Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich! -
[Robin S. Kurz] “You just have to do it FIRST not LAST to avoid replacing any other changes to the audio you might have made.”
I’m sorry, but this is a dramatic oversimplification of how editing works, and would quickly become an untenable workflow. I know you are smart enough to realize this, too.
If I employed this method, I have to do it to every new clip added in the timeline as you can’t add Browser side effects (which is another area for criticism). So this means, if all clips have been further adjusted in the timeline and then I added a new clip that I want to add the 3 frame fades, then I would need a dummy clip on the timeline with the three frame fades, then find it, then copy it, then paste effects on the new clip, then adjust the audio to suit the timeline. This isn’t an efficient workflow, wouldn’t it be easier to simply have audio crossfades separate from video? I think so. Or a keyboard shortcut that allows you to add audio fades without damaging the other automation? I think so.
FCPX could be better. We all know this. It’s OK to criticize it, I am still going to use it everyday, it’s still my favorite NLE to use, and I hope it gets better.
There is no reason to have audio follow video on a dissolve by default. Maybe it can be an option, but not a default. “Muxed” (sic) audio, as Bill calls it, is still a separate entity. The audio department would be super upset if the audio adjusted every time the camera man adjusted exposure. Audio and video, even though they are grouped, are still separate. And now that syncing is so easy in almost any NLE,, and internal audio is obtuse on more cameras than ever, I receive more double system audio than I ever have.
It used to be the double system audio cost extra, now, with all the different cameras, menus, and recording formats, on-set audio engineers always record double system because it serves as a confidence recording. They KNOW that the audio they record with their recorder is going to be good, and are less sure about the camera audio.
Audio is very important to me, and FCPX could use a little help in this area, and it’s OK for me to say so without having to question this “feature” of fading audio with video on a cross dissolve or transition. FCPX already has a great start, so let’s take it further.
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