Multigroup in FCPX like you can in Avid?

[Bill Davis]

The Angle Editor in X has a version of what you seem to be looking for – but like most of X, if you expect it to be a direct transfer of processes that you’re accustomed to in another editing app, you’re in for a lot of disappointment.

It’s really important to learn the way X does things – rather than trying to do the same things you do in another NLE – in X.

At first, the approach might look a bit similar – but underneath things, X is a very different beast.

For example, the Angle Editor essentially lives between the Event Browser and the Timeline as a separate stage workspace. It’s “upstream” of the timeline. So if you start behind it, it’s harder to understand where it fits.

Too many folks new to X dive into it by trying to build a timeline first – and that’s closer to the END of the X editing workflow – not so much near the beginning.

It’s about the worst way you can learn about X. Start with clip Import – and concentrate on learning and mastering the Event Browser first – learn about range editing and keywords – if you do that before you start hacking around in the timeline, you’ll be WAY ahead of the game of getting how X functions.

Good luck.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com – video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.

[Uli Kunkel]

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate your candor.

I think I understand the Event browser. It’s sort of like your “Source” window in Avid, only it shows all of your clips, right? The fundamentals here are still the same. Set IN point. Set OUT point. Put clips into timeline. Correct?

I asked about MultiGrouping bc I work in reality TV. We have to have it in our workflow. Big shows can’t live without it. So if there is some way to emulate that in FCPX that would be amazing.

I take it from your response that there isn’t a way to do that?

[Bill Davis]

[Uli Kunkel] ” think I understand the Event browser. It’s sort of like your “Source” window in Avid, only it shows all of your clips, right? The fundamentals here are still the same. Set IN point. Set OUT point. Put clips into timeline. Correct?”

Sorta, but it’s also understating the way the Event Browser works. It’s really the front end of X’s relational database. Yes, you can trim and do other pre-edit work there using multi-tiered tags like Reject and Favorite – but the attached keyword database is pretty powerful. Using it you can “bucket” and cross-connect clips and parts of clips to a customized keyword system that makes search and sort very agile.

Directly from the Event Browser, when you get to the timeline, single keystroke commands can pop whole or partial clips you’ve “range defined” onto the timeline in various connected states such as inserts, overwrites, connected clips, etc. It’s a whole system of clip attachment to the magnetic base of X’s storylines. Then in the storyline, you can further attach, compound and connect clips to each other or other assets. It’s a system.

[Uli Kunkel] “I asked about MultiGrouping bc I work in reality TV. We have to have it in our workflow. Big shows can’t live without it. So if there is some way to emulate that in FCPX that would be amazing.

I take it from your response that there isn’t a way to do that?”

The multi-clip process in X is designed to syncronize lots of video takes in time and let the editor “live post switch” between those angles visually.

Not knowing what you need, I’m hesitant to say it will do what you want, but it’s pretty flexible right now and developing fast via the X Roles functions.

I did a presentation at the LAFCPUG meeting back in January that went into some of the Multicam attributes built into X. You can watch it on YouTube and that might give you a better idea.

Sorry I can’t describe more, but I’m in prep mode for NAB.

Good luck.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com – video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.

[Charlie Austin]

[Uli Kunkel] “I asked about MultiGrouping bc I work in reality TV. We have to have it in our workflow. Big shows can’t live without it. So if there is some way to emulate that in FCPX that would be amazing.

I take it from your response that there isn’t a way to do that?”

I’ll jump in here… Bill knows way more about multicam than i do, but I just watched a “how to make an AVID multigroup for reality TV” tutorial… After I put my exploded head back together, I’m going to go out on a limb here and say. Yes, you absolutely can do this in X, and much more easily. To do what he did in 20 minute tutorial, I’d just highlight all the clips (which have matching TC) and click one button to sync them (using TC) and make a multiclip. Clips with no TC can be synced manually or with markers. Again, not an expert here so don’t take my word for it! The Aux Timecode thing I’m not sure about, is that needed for post, or do you need to add it so MC can sync the clips… If it’s the latter, it’s not needed in X. Be interested to hear if it works…

Oh… here’s Bill’s thing… but this:

https://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/fcp_x_multicam_basics_stone.html

might be more help getting started…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mqLOkckF9Q

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[Jeremy Garchow]

Is this aux timecode you assign? Or does the tc follow clip tc?

Sorry, I haven’t worked on Avid with Multigrouping.

X has a number of ways to group clips, so just making sure all capabilities you need are there.

[Charlie Austin]

[Jeremy Garchow] “Is this aux timecode you assign? Or does the tc follow clip tc?

Sorry, I haven’t worked on Avid with Multigrouping.

X has a number of ways to group clips, so just making sure all capabilities you need are there.”

Not sure of that either… FWIW, to compare and contrast with X, check this avid multigroup tutorial:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDR8nRXSTyc

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[Andy Neil]

Aux TC in Avid multigrouping is assigned TC as I recall. In reality, most times I’ve seen it, the various cameras shoot TOD (time of day) TC to get them all in the neighborhood, but none of the cameras are typically jam synched because they need to float around and can’t be tethered.

The AE takes the TOD TC and drops the camera angles into a 24 hour timeline, manually synching the angles with each other and the audio (if shot separately). This can be automated somewhat by finding the synch points on each camera (slates or clap slates) and assigning aux TC to the other angles and then creating the multigroup from the aux TC.

Basically, it’s an archaic method for synching footage. FCPX can sync the angles without the need for all the extra steps that they take in Avid.

Andy

https://www.timesavertutorials.com

[Marcus Samuel-gaskin]

You cannot do what the OP is asking in FCPX. Like Bill alluded to, the Angle viewer shows a tantalising glimpse of what coulda been if FCPX had tracks, but try as you might you cannot access that sync-map/layup in the timeline. It’s too much to explain, but I too work in Reality TV everyday, on Avid, and for the life of me I have not been able to repeat the kind of workflow that you can do in Avid or even FCP 7 for reality TV. The way I see that X is built precludes it.

The workflow goes something like this. You have bins with say ALL CAM A tapes shot for that day and their clips. ALL CAM B, ALL CAM C etc.

You would then select all clips in that bin and AUTOSEQUENCE the clips. This lays all the clips with their vision and camera-recorded audio from beginning to end in their correct TOD position.

So you will end up with a sequence at the top of the bin called CAMERA A-ALL, CAMERA B-ALL , CAMERA C-ALL, CAMERA D-ALL etc

You would then do the same with your field-recorded audio: CARD1-ALL, CARD2-ALL, CARD3-ALL, CARD4-ALL etc.
Your sound guy will record the same characters on the same audio tracks for the duration of the shoot/series

You would then create a new sequence (“project” in FCPX Parlance) starting at the earliest TC occurrence of your auto sequenced video or Audio card and cut in the field audio at that point. Do the same for the camera vision-only.

What you end up with is something like this:

Instead of that green camera audio, it would be say, 8, hour-long chunks of field audio. So that’s a timeline that’s 8 hours long (or more).
CAM E Vision on Track 5
CAM D Vision on Track 4
CAM C Vision on Track 3
CAM B Vision on Track 2
CAM A Vision on Track 1
PETER —- audio track 1
JANE —– audio track 2
CANDI—- audio track 3
DAVID—- audio track 4
OLIVIA—- audio track 5
MARTY—-audio track 6
HOST1—-audio track 7
HOST2—-audio track 8

We’re just getting started. You now go through each and every clip on the time line and create a grouped-clip version whereby the vision and its content is” grouped to” its audio content. It is then either overwritten over it’s timeline original or cut in over it on “Lines” above the main vision content. So PETER&JANE would be one “line” CAND&DAVID would be another, OLIVIA&MARTY would be another, and lastly, HOST1&HOST2 would be another.

Some of it is multi-cam like the cluster of clips you see at the beginning of the screen shot above. Some of it is GV’s like the clips you see in succession on V7 then the main chunk might be the couples splitting off and doing their own thing across town somewhere and then converging in a big multi cam session later on with characters crossing over and all sorts going on.

Those ‘Lines’ are then parcelled off and packaged how the producers and editors want them, then it’s job done.

X can kinda/sorta produce a sync-map/layup like the one in the screenshot above, BUT it’s locked into the Angle Viewer and you can’t do anything with it like you need to in the typical Reality TV workflow I just described.

How do you translate that tantalising sync map in the Angle Viewer to the regular FCPX timeline ?
How do you go through and create group-clips with field audio?

It is said that the audio components added in 10.0.6 might help with this and FCP X’s batch renaming and multi cam sync might help with this, but i’m thinking you’re gonna need Phil Hodgetts’ Sync-n-Link software somewhere in the chain?

Anyway digest these two videos and tell me if FCP X is a goer or a non starter in the world of Reality TV

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[David Powell]

I was brainstorming out an idea but looking back at marcus’ post, it wasn’t the right way to go about it.

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Marcus Samuel-Gaskin] “You cannot do what the OP is asking in FCPX. Like Bill alluded to, the Angle viewer shows a tantalising glimpse of what coulda been if FCPX had tracks, but try as you might you cannot access that sync-map/layup in the timeline.”

In the Avid video, it looks like the method used was a long way around to get what FCPX will do with a multi clip in the Angle Editor

In this sense, FCPX would allow this, and you’d simply scrub the multi-clip (or add it to your Project) with the tod tc.

You wouldn’t necessarily need to create a sequence first, nor a bunch of subclips that end up getting deleted anyway.

One problem is that FCPX does not allow match framing back to the original clip from a multi-clip, it must be done from the Angle Editor. So you’d open the Angle editor, find the frame and then match back.

You would also have to figure out what you want to do with audio. You could make a synchronized clip of all audio, and add that clip to an angle and turn on and off the components as you need them. Or attached audio to the appropriate video clips.

Unfortunately, synchronized clips do NOT carry over orig. tc, so you’d sync by audio in the Angle Editor and then the clips would assume what is being used as “Aux TC” in the Avid video which is really just TOD tc in this case.

OP asks if you can sync everything together in FCPX and create a sync map, and then use that as one big clip.

Yes, you could do it and the setup would be fairly easy, but you should know there are a few limitations.