Multiclips lose sync when reconnecting

[Walter Biscardi]

[Jasper McInerney] “If you are not having problems, then one of two things is happening: you have FCP version 5 (which has a whole different set of bugs), or you’re not using timecode, or possibly all your clips have identical timecode.”

Ok, you did read the part about him doing broadcast work with multiclip. So that means Timecode was used. And he’s using Time of Day TC. And he told you what to do if the TC is off.

[Jasper McInerney] “I repeat: Multiclips do not work properly.

Have a look on the internet forums – it’s very easy to find people tearing their hair out in frustration. FCP 6 multiclip function is a dog!!!”

If you research this forum, you’ll find that Herb has been offering great advice to folks on here for quite some time. He also has cut quite a few multiclip projects. If he says the feature works, then it does.

He also says if you work in the multiclip mode improperly, then it won’t work correctly. Multiclip is not like a lot of functions in FCP where there are many ways to do the same thing. With Multiclip you must perform the proper workflow in order to get it to work correctly.

Look through his notes again, and see what you’re doing that’s different. Just because other forums are full of people who can’t get it to work doesn’t mean the feature itself doesn’t work. It means there could be a lot of people out there who have not taken the time to properly educate themselves on how to use the multiclip workflow.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.

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[Jasper Mcinerney]

If he says the feature works, then it does.

Well, actually, no it doesn’t. Repeat, if all clips have identical timecode (i.e. time of day), then you may not see this problem. That does not mean multiclip works! That means it will work for some people who only shoot this way. Clearly multiclip is supposed to work for cameras with different timecode!!!
Repeat: Multiclip does not work.

Just because other forums are full of people who can’t get it to work doesn’t mean the feature itself doesn’t work. It means there could be a lot of people out there who have not taken the time to properly educate themselves on how to use the multiclip workflow.

Sigh. It’s just a computer program, don’t feel emotionally attached to it.

I’ll say it again: Clips shift sync (by offset between inpoints and timecode). This is a repeatable bug and a sequence with this problem has been sent to Apple by the Apple certified support crew. It’s not about workflow, it’s about FCP not working properly.!!!! I know it, the twenty other editors know about it, and Apple know about it. You should tell them that it’s all okay, I’m sure they’d like to know.

Whether they will do anything about it is anyone’s guess. But it remains, multiclip is a dog!!!! If you have this problem, let them know; it is not you, it is the software.

[Walter Biscardi]

[Jasper McInerney] “Repeat, if all clips have identical timecode (i.e. time of day), then you may not see this problem. That does not mean multiclip works!”

From Herb’s original post:

If your various cameras don’t have identical timecode then you have to set in-points to sync with. When done properly I’ve never had a problem. However if done improperly it cannot be fixed later, which is a problem.

That sounds to me like it works with or without matching timecode. It also sounds like if you set up your project incorrectly, you cannot fix it later.

I’ll repeat, it sure sounds like multiclip works as long as the operator understands how to set up their project correctly.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.

STOP STARING AND START GRADING WITH APPLE COLOR Apple Color Training DVD available now!
Read my Blog!

[Herb Sevush]

Walter –

I’m sorry I was off-line for awhile and missed this exchange. Walter, thank you for the compliments but now that I understand exactly what Jasper is complaining about I will have to offer some caveats.

I do almost nothing but multi-cam editing, and have for the last 8 to 10 years, but the overwhelming majority of my work is with matched time-code cameras. I have worked with in-points on FCP and have not had these problems, but I don’t do it that often, so I don’t feel comfortable telling someone that he’s not having the problems he is having.

Jasper – when making multi-clips with in-points are you using master clips or sub-clips? Also are you sure you haven’t seperately used the same source clip and thereby changed the in-point reference? These would be the first 2 things i would test when trying to figure out why the multi-clips were not functioning. Also I will say the a sure way to get corrupted multi-clips is to use a clip that has time-code breaks within it – something that shouldn’t happen, but that actually happens all to easily in FCP.

Finally I can offer this work around, change the AUX time-code on the clips and sync with them. FCP makes it incredibly easy to change the time-code on a captured clip, and that includes 2 optional AUX time code tracks that are available for each clip. Find a sync point on each of the clips that you want to use in a multi-clip, go to Modify / Time Code – check the AUX TC 1 box and enter a common time code in the window – I would recommend that this time code be a copy of the actual time code of your most important clip, but anything will do – and then when making a multi-clip choose to Sync with Aux 1. (just don’t uncheck the box containing your source time-code or you’ll loose it – leave both boxes checked) – this extra step does not take long and should alleviate your problems.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions

[Allen Kaufman]

I’ve only recently begun to use the multi-clip editing feature in FCP (v6). Occasionally I’ve had to collapse a cut multiclip to it’s source and use the slip tool to pull a clip back into sync with the audio on one of the cameras (and leave the one collapsed)

So far, the only footage I’ve had to work with has been with sync’d IN points against a clap. In 24p, it’s tough because the audio/connect of clapper from cam to cam will vary. So… that’s been my workaround.

A more serious issue for me has been that so far every exported-to-Compressor multiclip project has resulted in extreme interlace/streaking artifacts. Anyone else suffering the same?

I’ve had to export a lossless quicktime (PNG) movie first, then drag it into Compressor independent of FCP as a workaround.

AK

Allen Kaufman
Sunlight Digital – media with meaning
http://www.sunlightdigital.com

[Herb Sevush]

Allen –

A more serious issue for me has been that so far every exported-to-Compressor multiclip project has resulted in extreme interlace/streaking artifacts. Anyone else suffering the same?

Absolutely not. There is nothing in the multi-cam setup that would cause this. Given all the problems you seem to be having with loss of audio sync and this export problem I would have to suspect something is “off” with the clips you have captured, or the FCP project file may be corrupted.

I would also highly recommend that you upgrade to FCP version 6.03 if you haven’t already. It has fixed the type of sync issues that started this thread.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions

[Allen Kaufman]

Thanks for the response..

My audio sync issues aside (that’s just because my best sync source is a hand-clap at 24p from the production crew rather than timecode synced cameras – so I’m multiclip’d via IN points with a less-than-accurate source between each camera). It’s not a severe problem.. just a pain.

Back to the “serious issue” at hand…

however this (visual smearing/interlace-looking bands & artifacts) has been happening across more than one project – whenever exported directly through Compressor from a multiclip-based sequence. I am working in v6.03.

Ever since Final Cut Studio 2 – there have been discrepancies between FCP and direct export to Compressor that have slowly been improving. This banding issue is a real fly in the ointment this time around.

Allen Kaufman
Sunlight Digital – media with meaning
http://www.sunlightdigital.com

[Herb Sevush]

Allen –

Do you mean to say you are having these compressor problems ONLY when exporting direct from a multi-clip sequence – or is this happening when exporting from FCP in general?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions

[Nga Nguyen]

Hey,

I have a work around for that. The reconnecting issue is annoying. At my work we have to transfer media/project all the time. So multi-clips becoming out of sync is a problem.

You can email me at nganguyen21@hotmail.com and I can give you a run thur.

[Dale Gagne]

better late than never and perhaps helpful to someone else but we have found that you must have the same paths to files that have been captured at all machines in order for multiclips to hold their sync and data correctly. IE: FCP Capture station captures to Internal Mac HD/FCP Media/Project dailies dated bin/”actual meda”

Copied to second/third edit station location internal Mac HD/FCP Media/named same as “Project dailies dated bin”/”actual media”

The problem I am having at this time is that the above allieviates the issues of anamorphic media losing it’s multiclip anamorphic settings that can not just be toggled back on without having it lost again the second you load the multiclip. This seems to have to be correct from time of capture all the way through to the finish station. We had this all working fine until I had to add an additional hard drive due to space issues and now I am back to losing the metadata on the anamorphic setting of hte multiclips. I am going to try creating a completely new path and see if this works. IE: /internal HD2/FCP Media 2/project dailies/media and see if this works when I duplicate this path on the other 2 edit stations.