Moving to Intel by 2007 is true

[George Loch]

No worries. The G5 will still be viable for a long while.

gl

[George Loch]

…and I think it will be a good while before you can even run FCP on Intel h/w.

gl

[Graeme Nattress]

A G5 is a good machine for FCP today, and it will be tomorrow too. It’s the lower end macs that need the immediate speed boost, so they’re getting it first, but it still sounds like G5s will improve because there’s no way that Apple can make us wait 2 years for a new high end mac. And I think the transition might move faster than anticipated for the majority of users. I think the next couple of months are going to be wait and see until we see new mac announcements with the new chips, and we get the developer models and figure out what they’re like in practise.

Interesting times, but it looks like if OS X can move chips like this, we’re not going to get left in the dirt no matter what happens to the personal computer chips in the future. Future-proofing has got to be a good thing. OS X is the best OS out there for 95% of users of personal computers.

Graeme

– http://www.nattress.com – Film Effects for FCP

[Mitchji]

Hi,

Some of the issues that will effect resale value of G5’s are not known. Will they cost less than similar G5’s (probably not a lot less). Will the performance be a lot better? Even if the real performance is not a lot better will they have a much higher clock rate that Apple will hype as being faster?

I think for a few month’s to a year after the OS and all the major applications are Intel Native it will make sense to stay with a G5 for video production rather than be a beta tester.

By the time you are sure its safe to move to an Intel based Mac for video production I think there will be a substantial fall in the resale value of G5’s but I don’t think it will be massive. Your best bet (financially) would be to get a good deal on a mid range dual G5. If you get a refurb, preferably of a previous mode, you should be able to get the basic system for about $1,500. Even if there is a big price drop you won’t take too big a hit.

Best Wishes,

Mitch

[Adolfo Rozenfeld]

[Graeme Nattress] “However, Apple can’t just stop at moving to Intel processors – we need PCI Express, better graphics cards with better GPUs etc. etc.
“

Oh, you mean we need a PC?

God. It’s alarming how Orwellian Apple is and we the users are. Steve took 5 minutes to say Pentium is better, end of story. Any reference of the Pentium being worse will be deleted from our minds. The Pentium ALWAYS was better, PowerPC is the enemy, right?

He could have said that from now on we should wear our underwear on the outside. And we’re fine with it. Now we all think “we don’t care what the processor is”. But 72 hours ago we would have loved to explain to PC users the advantages of the PowerPC. Or would have questioned Charlie White’s benchmark results. Now we will buy Intel boxes at a premium price, but probably won’t be allowed to upgrade processors, which is the only advantage of PCs.
Users like Graeme are really independent, but certain others are obviously SO afraid of saying something Apple wouldn’t like…. why’s that?

Don’t get me wrong – I won’t go Windows and Premiere. But I am alarmed at the almost complete lack of critical points of view. Please allow me the freedom of saying that, IMHO, this sucks.

I feel better now. I still prefer Mac and Apple apps.

Adolfo Rozenfeld
Buenos Aires – Argentina
https://www.adolforozenfeld.com
adolfo@adolforozenfeld.com

[Eric Stinemates]

The refurb route may be the way to go and It’s something I’ve been considering anyway since it doesn’t look like any significant PPC upgrades are coming soon. I don’t mind the move to Intel if it gives us a consistent supply of faster hardware and greater access to current video cards.

I just hope this doesn’t affect the expansion of the FCP market. I’d hate to see Apple lose business to Avid or PC products because of uncertainty about the availability of up to date products. Apple may be taking a short term hit on hardware sales and even purchases of its pro video software while the roadmap remains murky.

[Graeme Nattress]

I spent a fair bit of time this weekend thinking this through….

Are PowerPC processors rubbish? – No, it’s just that IBM promised what they couldn’t deliver, and show no signs of delivering, just like Motorola. PowerPC will continue to improve, and there will be more PowerPC macs to come.

Are Intel processors better? – No, not inherently, but will Intel deliver on their promises? Don’t know, but by that time, all new mac software will run on PPC and Intel because of the FAT binary. All old software will run on the PPC anyway. If IBM do deliver and Intel don’t, it’ll be an easy switch back. If XYZ company makes a new chip that’s even better still, it will be a quick job to port across, keeping backwards compatibility going.

For 99% of users, it won’t matter, and they won’t care what processor their mac is running on as long as it works. For a developer, as long as the tools are their and the APIs are good, it’ll be easy enough to port or to program for multiple architectures.

For video graphics users, it probably means PCI-express is coming, which is exactly what we need to fully leverage GPU power for graphics work. Don’t underestimate how important this is. It’s due to the lack of PCI-Express that we don’t have Motion like effects in real time in FCP.

Graeme

– http://www.nattress.com – Film Effects for FCP

[Nick Westbridge]

I’m not even sure whereabouts to look for refurbished machines in my area. I live up in Vancouver (in Canada). The apple.ca store doesn’t sell refurbs, and I haven’t been able to find a local store with a good deal. Anyone in my area had any luck? Any suggestions at all? 🙂

[Oliver Peters]

Look, the bottom line is that whatever you buy today – PC, G5, whatever – if the overhead is low and you run your business right, you will make money. There are plenty of folks on FCP and graphics making money on G4s and even G3s. There are plenty of Avid folks making money on old ABVBs running on 9600s and beige G3 computers. It all works.

This PPC versus P4 argument is BS and always has been. The system architecture is far more complicated that just CPU or even 32-bit versus 64-bit. Both Intel and IBM have hit a wall with CPU speed so in order to move to the next level, they have to re-engineer the guts. Intel is in a better position to do this and has the interest in doing so. By and large IBM is a services company first, a mainframe company second and everything else third. When IBM developed their own machines for the first 601 chips, they let something like 100,000 consumer desktop PCs rot in the warehouse because the RISC division of the company pulled enough strings to kill off IBM’s PC division. There is no right or wrong in any of this. Only smart business moves.

If you buy a G5 today – and stretch a little in cost so you get a top notch machine – it will still be making money for you 2 or 3 years later.

Sincerely,
Oliver

Oliver Peters
Post-Production & Interactive Media
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com

[Mitchji]

[Graeme Nattress] “Are Intel processors better? – No, not inherently, but will Intel deliver on their promises? Don’t know, but by that time, all new mac software will run on PPC and Intel because of the FAT binary. All old software will run on the PPC anyway. If IBM do deliver and Intel don’t, it’ll be an easy switch back. If XYZ company makes a new chip that’s even better still, it will be a quick job to port across, keeping backwards compatibility going.”

Hi Graeme,

Actually the architecture of Intel Chips is worse. I did some Intel assembly language programming and author of the reference book stated something like “there are two kinds of Intel assembly language programers, those who say the chips suck and liars”. I also believe Alta Vec is more powerful than the corresponding Intel technology. On the other hand G5’s consume more power.

Two issues aside from the performance of the CPU are:
1. How will applications that are optimized for Alta Vec perform on Intel Chips?
2. How long will it be before these applications are optimized for Intel Chips (as opposed to merely running reliably)?

I think in the long run the move to Intel chips will be good for Mac users because Intel can afford to pour a lot more into R & D than IBM can afford to spend on PowerPC development.

In the short term this the situation is not as clear for users. What if you need a new computer and (for example) FCP screams on the Intel but AE (Adobe might take longer to optimize their Mac code for Intel) is slower than on a G5. What is your Dual G5 going to be worth if Apple reduces the prices on Intel based Power Macs by 20%, they perform better, plus the Apple Intel hype factor?

Best Wishes,

Mitch