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More stuttering zoom stories….
Many of you are already familiar with the stuttering zoom issue present with some ex cameras. There have been posts here and on other boards describing it, with various responses from Sony.
This has become an on-going issue with the ex3 that my business partner and I initially purchased in early July. I think we’re on camera number 4 now, having opened up at least two other boxes with new cameras. In short, slow- to mid-speed zooms cannot generally be executed without a pulsing or stuttering action of the lens under constant rocker pressure. In attempting to work around the problem I’ve found that ramping past the slow-zoom range in the rocker position (ignoring the initial stutters), trying to settle on a steady mid-speed zoom will also fail. It’ll work for a moment, but then the zoom speed accelerates (without further rocker pressure) and starts to get away from you. Reducing rocker pressure at this point brings you back into pulsing and stuttering territory. I cannot properly express just how frustrating and embarrassing it is to lose shot after shot like this. Sony is aware of the problem, as they have offered explanations to us either on the phone or in person. But when it comes to their official responses in regard to a specific camera they will not acknowledge that the camera malfunctions.
We took the first camera back to the dealer and put it on their tech’s bench to demonstrate the problem. The dealer immediately suggested that this was a problem that occurred only at 24p, as he had already been given an explanation by Sony before we ever brought it to his attention. This was not the case, as we were able to reproduce the problem then and there at 1080/24p, 1080/30p and 1080/60i. Our dealer sent the camera to Teaneck for repair and Sony sent the camera back indicating they had given the camera and lens a thorough going-over, but acknowledged no malfunction. Obviously a camera that can’t zoom properly is not only a liability, but is pretty much useless for most kinds of work. When a director or producer asks you for a slow zoom, telling him/her that your equipment isn’t capable of it isn’t acceptable. The dealer understood, and we opened up two more boxes to find each new camera exhibited the same problem. We gave them back the camera.
We went to Abel Cine Tech in hopes of finding a functioning camera, and with the hope that if we had to send the camera to Sony again that Abel might have sufficient influence to illicit better attention. In the meantime we had bookings for the camera, so we had plenty of opportunity for real world field tests under different kinds of shooting scenarios. We really wanted to make each camera work, perhaps more than we reasonably should have. If you’ve spent any time working with this camera, maybe you’ll know why.
In fact, on our first visit to Abel there happened to be a Sony rep there. We demonstrated the problem present with the new cameras, then demonstrated its absence in Abel’s floor model. His response was honest, but I was amazed to hear him say, in effect, what do you expect? Their Cine Alta division is manufacturing a $9000 camera, you can’t be surprised if the manufacturing tolerances are a bit off. Maybe they’ll do a better job with the next model iteration.
After working with the new camera for a time we took it back to Abel and told them the results. They asked that we try the repair route again before another exchange, and we agreed to try it. We spoke with the tech who worked on the camera at Teaneck and he indicated that he would replace the front element in the lens. We also spoke with another Sony rep during that time and he brought up the explanation involving the 24p malfunction. Apparently this has something to do with an excess of data overwhelming the processor while zooming in 24p. Obviously he hadn’t actually tested this theory himself. And why would this lead a tech to replace a lens element? We got the camera back with Sony’s assertion that function was normal. We tested the zoom with a variety of video format settings, and it still didn’t work properly.
The staff at Abel have been very helpful and sympathetic. I don’t know what conversations might take place between a dealer and a manufacturer, but there doesn’t seem to be anything they can do. Our options seem to be either keep hoping we’ll eventually get a properly functioning camera, or we’ll just have to hand them the camera back and give up on the ex3. It’s disappointing. We really want to move forward with the ex3, but you can’t invest in a camera that makes you look incapable of executing standard camera moves.
I still can’t get over the idea that you can go out and buy a $300 video camera and it will zoom properly, but that Sony might hope to suggest that this malfunction doesn’t take the ex cameras outside the realm of fitness for purpose.
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28 Replies
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I’ve read a few of these alledged stories in diffrent forums about stuttering zooms. I don’t doubt that some are experiencing a problem when they attempt a zoom when using the rocker. However, just for the record, I have yet to encounter this problem with my EX3 and I’ve owned it and used for nearly a year.
One can’t help but wonder how many are actual physical problems with the lens and how many are user issues.
And if you want to get technical, it’s not Sony but Fujinon who built the lens. So any issues with the lens should be directed at them.
Just something to think about.
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Have you tried the zoom with the top handle? Set speed and test. You’ll find exactly where the issue starts. I had this with my EX1 in January 2008 and by February Sony had replaced the camera and that worked fine. There’s plenty of good cameras for Sony to be able to replace. If some work and others don’t than Sony as to examine their QC and specs on the build.
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Hi Jay. You sound skeptical. I understand that, but you also appear to be reading something into my comments that i haven’t put there. I am not suggesting that your camera doesn’t work properly. In fact, i’m suggesting it does. Mine doesn’t. That’s part of the point i’m making.
And if i were you, i would also wonder whether the problem were user-induced. We reproduced the problem in front of dealers, techs and Sony reps. For those of us dealing with the problem, it’s very clear. There hasn’t been any dispute on that point. But i understand why you might reserve judgment, not having actually seen it yourself. I would do the same.
As far as the ultimate source of the problem, I’m not really interested in speculating on Sony’s character. I’m describing the issue as it has unfolded. I don’t really care who’s to blame for the manufacturing errors, as that doesn’t get me any closer to a solution.
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Hey Craig,
I remember that you had this issue as well, and i remember that Sony came through for you and got you a camera that worked properly.
I did do some tests with the handle-rocker. The first Sony tech i spoke with asked me if this was the problem, and if it were that Sony wasn’t bothered. I told him that while i was able to reproduce the problem with the little handle-rocker, i wasn’t concerned about that. I never use it. The issue was that the camera would not execute a proper zoom with the primary rocker.
Michael
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No, Mike, I wasn’t reading anything into anything. Nor was implying anything, other than what I said outright.
“I don’t really care who’s to blame for the manufacturing errors, as that doesn’t get me any closer to a solution. ”
You should care! And approaching the correct party responsible could work wonders for solving your problem.
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Jay, so long as ex lenses are used, the issue seems to follow the camera. We’ve tried swapping lenses from another ex3 that worked properly. As far as i know the problem may be a combination of issues. I’m not in a position to make a determination about that, and frankly that’s not my responsibility. Neither Sony nor Fujinon would be too bothered about my conclusions anyway. I’m sure there are many vendors that Sony buys parts and assemblies from. Would it help me to know who supplied a certain relay or capacitor?
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Michael, using the top handle zoom lever (it’s not a rocker as it’s not touch sensitive. It’s on/off in the shape of a rocker) is important is it verifies the exact speed point the failure occurs. Sony can’t claim it’s “clumsy” handle use in that case.
You can simply go to the tech and say, put on low speed and set to 10, then set to 5 and compare. If you leave to the rocker description you leave it to the subjectivity of the tech and their own possible clumsiness to verify the fix. In my case they replaced the lens and verified it continued to fail and then replaced the entire camera. One trip to Sony and I had a new camera with working zoom in three weeks. It took about a week to replace lens and test and then about two weeks to authorize the replacement. There was no need to send the camera back and forth because it was easy to describe and have Sony tech test for a specific failure point.
When dealing with techs (I have been one on both hardware and software) you need to have very specific protocols and documentation. If the tech is given a subjective description (how does one describe touch sensitivity) they are going to make a subjective judgement. Others have had the issue and Sony has made good on the fix or replacement since obviously there are known good cameras.
I’ve had two problems with my EX1 (the other was a botched firmware upgraded) and it both cases giving the tech a specific testing protocol resulted in immediate fixes.
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Craig, i appreciate what you’re saying. i believe the inability to directly demonstrate the problem in the presence of Sony’s tech may account for some of the problem here. I have frequently wondered just how their tech is testing the problem in making a determination. Would someone who hasn’t spent years as a camera op be able to make a clear determination? Certainly everyone for whom we’ve demonstrated the problem has had no doubt.
The problem with referring the tech to the “button” on the top grab handle is that Sony seems to have issued marching orders to their techs that any problem associated with that zoom control is not going to be supported. If i describe the problem as a function of that button they won’t respond, apparently on the premise that this button at slow speed (pre-set internally, as you know) is not part of the normal function of the camera. And i won’t argue that point. But their argument implies that the failure with the primary rocker IS a real malfunction. So they keep redirecting the conversation back to the button. I assume these marching orders arrived some time after you and a few others had the problem with your earlier cameras.
This is the frustrating part. Sony will acknowledge that there is a problem, but won’t address it. They will issue disclaimers for the top button (they see there is a problem), but won’t acknowledge it as it concerns the primary rocker. They’ll state that there is a problem, but only as a function of 24p sample rate. Maybe they consider that acceptable, but what does that indicate when the problem is found at lower sample rates? Why did they replace the front lens element?
The disclaimers or explanations seem to be given without any reference to actual cameras exhibiting the problem. I don’t know if it’s a smoke screen, or just idle speculation on their part.
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[Michael Pruitt-Bruun] “The problem with referring the tech to the “button” on the top grab handle is that Sony seems to have issued marching orders to their techs that any problem associated with that zoom control is not going to be supported. If i describe the problem as a function of that button they won’t respond, apparently on the premise that this button at slow speed (pre-set internally, as you know) is not part of the normal function of the camera”
Sorry but I don’t buy that based on first hand experience. They sell a product and it must function as described. They took care of my issue. Don’t accept otherwise. The zoom button is user settable. I was able to give them the speed threshold where the failure was easily and consistently observable. I did this over the phone when they had my camera and the compared it to another camera. If it failed at the same point on all cameras they could argue it as an inherent limitation but if they verify it working on one and not another it’s a quality control issue. You’re defeating yourself IMHO. You’re dealing with failable human beings and mass produced technology in which any given element at any given time can go wrong. Do what you want but the two times I’ve had issues, Sony handled them to my satisfaction.
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Craig, I was specifically told by the tech in Teaneck that they would not address any failure of the “button” zoom. How does that indicate that i’m defeating myself? I appreciate what you’re saying, and your taking the time to say it. But the game has changed since you dealt with this problem.
Nevertheless, we have no intention of settling for a camera that doesn’t zoom properly. It just isn’t an option. It may be ONLY a $9000 camera, but how could you pay that amount for something that wasn’t able to perform its normal functions?
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