monitor hd on a WEAK bdget

[Sean Oneil]

[Shane Ross] “I think the HD Link from Decklink might have that in the software”

It does.

Sean

[Sean Oneil]

I don’t think SED will ever come out. There’s some kind of lawsuit going on, and its commercial viability to price ratio keeps drifting away (do consumers care if its SED and not plasma or LCD?).

I think the broadcast monitors of 2010 will all be OLED. The problem is, what to do until then. Settle for an inferior LCD, or spend a fortune on gigantic, 200+ lbs. CRT that won’t fit in most people’s rooms.

Sean

[Shane Ross]

Terrence…the whole point of this discussion is monitoring HD on a limited budget. Yes, we’d ALL love to have the money to afford a $45,000 monitor. But, we don’t. Heck, my entire FCP edit system including HD CRT (PVM 14L5) costs less than those monitors.

So, what are the INEXPENSIVE alternatives? The MXO and Apple display are good examples. As are the Decklink Extreme + HD Link + Apple display. Is the image on the Apple display as good as that on the $45,000 eCinema? $35,000 Sony? OF COURSE NOT. They have a better contrast ratio, deeper blacks…a whole lot going for them.

But, does everyone need the $35,000 monitor? No…they don’t. Can they afford the $1000/hour online bay that offers that? No. Not everyone needs that. DARN FEW people need and can afford that. CSI, 24, House, National Advertising…THEY utilize those bays. They are network shows with the budget to afford them. A few cable network shows can afford them to, but many can’t, so they don’t go to the Post Group or Riot or Encore to color correct. They might be someone who produces Surfing videos, or corporate videos, regional commercials, smaller cable companies. They can EASILY get by with the MXO.

Is it spot on? No. But it is close. Will you see the difference? Yes, in an online bay, you will. But by the time the show gets compressed, sent over the airwaves, and shows up on Pa Kettle’s TV in Kentucky…or MY TV in Los Angeles…it won’t look close to what you saw in the online bay. That is the only place you will see it that good.

Is that any reason to not strive to get the best image you can? No. And that is the point…to get the best image you can. Many people cannot afford the eCinema CRT replacement, or the Sony CRTs…or even the new LCDs. So they get what they can afford…the MXO…or Decklink and HD LINK…and an apple or dell display. That combo will get you a broadcast quality image…and is adjustable so you can balance them to bars.

The BEST? No. Good…workable…accurate? Yes.

Shane

Littlefrog Post
http://www.lfhd.net

[Bob Zelin]

I already gave you the cheapest solution for a pro room – the Dell 2407. If you want to go to WalMart, I saw some 20″ LCD’s this weekend with RGB inputs for $279. These will work with the Kona product as well. You can always ask Grandma for her old Magavox console TV. Once the tubes warm up, do the following –

1) Take the AJA Kona Out Y, and using the control panel, on the analog tab, select COMPOSITE. ‘
2) go to Radio Shack, and buy a video to RF converter. Select the switch to channel 3.
3) plug the RF output of the Radio Shack video to RF adaptor into the antenna input of grandma’s Maganvox TV Antenna input.
4) tune in channel 3, and start editing.
5) if this is still too expensive, please post your address, and I will send you a $100 gift certificate to Wal Mart so you can buy a TV
6) if this is still not an acceptable solution, than please post your address here, so I can fly over to your facility and hit you over the head with a lead pipe, becuase I am SICK OF THIS THREAD ALREADY.

Bob Zelin

[Terence Curren]

[Shane Ross] “But by the time the show gets compressed, sent over the airwaves, and shows up on Pa Kettle’s TV in Kentucky…or MY TV in Los Angeles…it won’t look close to what you saw in the online bay.”

That is not the point of a reference monitor. The point is to make sure that your show looks exactly the way you want it whether you work in one of my bays or a bay in NY.

The shows that grandma watches should be all be off by the same amount on her system. The shows that you watch on your TV should also be off by the same amount. your eye adjusts to your TV, so all the programs will seem right to you.

With your concept of “who cares it is going to look like crap at the end”, none of us have a fighting chance of getting any consistency in our programs.

[Shane Ross] “The BEST? No. Good…workable…accurate? Yes.”

I could easily prove to you that they aren’t accurate, but you obviously didn’t read my post. For starters, how do you adjust the backlight to 6504 Kelvin? Do you know why that is important?

I never said you have to change what you are doing, that is your world. I just said that you can’t cheaply make an LCD look and behave like a CRT. If you want to argue that point, answer the points I made in my post. Otherwise you are just obfuscating the issue.

Terence Curren
http://www.alphadogs.tv
http://www.digitalservicestation.com
Burbank,Ca

[Tony]

Totally agree with you Terence however keep in mind for those budgetary challenged folks it is more about “is it good enough for their applications” which has little to do with consistency or maintaining uniform standards.

Some of these end users will never care to understand how to properly adjust gain and bias on any monitor to truly make it a color critical device worthy of serious color correction etc.

Again it is all about “is it good enuff” for their application. In most cases it will be for them but not for a higher end professional or facility that has to interchange their products with numerous vendors and/or facilities.

Just my two cents worth,

Tony Salgado

[Terence Curren]

I get what you are saying Tony, and I agree that everyone is limited by their budget. I only jumped in here because someone was claiming you could use a magic box to make a standard LCD match a broadcast CRT. I wish someone would show me how to do that, I would turn around and approach Sony, Panasonic, JVC, eCinema, CineTal et.al. and sell the trick to the highest bidder. Then I could retire to paradise and buy ice cream off of Bob’s truck all day.

Terence Curren
http://www.alphadogs.tv
http://www.digitalservicestation.com
Burbank,Ca

[Shane Ross]

[tcurren] “I only jumped in here because someone was claiming you could use a magic box to make a standard LCD match a broadcast CRT”

I am that someone. And I will freely admit that I am not a professional colorist. That is not hwo I make my living. But I have onlined and color corrected shows (thus the title “online editor”) when they couldn’t afford a true colorist. My main talent is as an “offline” or creative editor. I can adjust a monitor to bars decently well, but I don’t do it without assistance. I have a guy come in before I am about to color correct to re-balance my monitor. Mainly because I don’t have the proper equipment to do this, and I want to be sure.

I know that D65…6500K…is the white point that your eye needs to adjust to in order to make sure that ALL the other colors are in fact true to color. Sorry, I didn’t think that needed addressing. Now, when I did my tests I borrowed a monitor color balancing device, the Spyder 2, from a buddy. He in fact came to operate it because I didn’t know. And we made sure that the white point of the LCD was 6500K…or as close as it could get.

Then I balanced the color bars to that setting and got a very good image. EXACTLY what I saw on my CRT? No…it was slightly greenish (slightly) and the blacks weren’t as deep…and the LCD doesn’t have the contrast ratio of the CRT, so that was a little off. So no, it wasn’t perfect…it was close. And that is all I claimed…close. Good enough for several people. Network Broadcast? No. Regional commercials…corporate video…DVD sales…I’d say yes.

[tcurren] “I wish someone would show me how to do that,”

You are close…and you guys did an output for a show I worked on (BLOOD DIAMONDS)…so when I have some time I might come and show you.

Again, this in NO WAY compares to eCinema or high end Sony and Panasonic stuff. It is, after all, taking a computer monitor and doing what it does. But for low cost, low end stuff…it is a solution worth looking at.

IMHO.

Shane

Littlefrog Post
http://www.lfhd.net

[Terence Curren]

[Shane Ross] “Again, this in NO WAY compares to eCinema or high end Sony and Panasonic stuff.”

Shane,

For what it’s worth, the high end monitors don’t match a CRT either. 🙁

Terence Curren
http://www.alphadogs.tv
http://www.digitalservicestation.com
Burbank,Ca

[Shane Ross]

[tcurren] “For what it’s worth, the high end monitors don’t match a CRT either. :-(“

Yeah, I saw that podcast discussion you guys had about that…with Mark Raudonis. Shame that the lower end CRTs like the one I have were discontinued.

Shane

Littlefrog Post
http://www.lfhd.net