MixPre-D and Windows 7?

[Ty Ford]

1) Yes we do both of these. I teach talent with hand held mikes and boom operators to work with the audio tech to get a good level and a good quality before we start shooting.

>>and during the shoot on a second by second basis.

2) understood though in any given shoot you might have sudden changes in levels. If for example there was a line with horrible distortion and you had the option, you would reshoot. The occasional low level that say dips to 0 or -4, can be boosted in post. But at what level would you say best to reshoot? Remember I’m using student talents and student audio techs. Not someone with your skill. I’m just surprised to read in the manuals that 0 (-20 on the cam) is a target level.

>>Doing it only by the meters only gets you so far, usually not far enough. Ambient noise, off-axis mics both help you decide. Bottom line; if you can’t hear the line clearly because it’s either too low in the noise floor i because it’s distorted, then reshoot.

3. So you disagree with both Canon and Sound Devices manuals, as do I, or am I misreading what they are saying?

>>I’m telling you what works for me, but you have to be on top of the job. Audio is not a set and forget job. Manuals are frequently written to be somewhat conservative and frequently by people who are not users.

Thanks again Ty. Just surprises me that at this point in time that the camcorder companies are not addressing audio with the same competitive spirit that they are evolving visual acquisition. For example, the headphone amps on even fairly expensive video gear is really awful. They add so much noise to the signal that you think you have a problem with your mikes. So it’s hard to monitor your incoming audio. Play it back and it’s fine. We use a snake cable into the 302 and I tell the students to just switch to RTN to make sure that the camera is receiving the signal. Then switch back to the 302s headphone amp so you can actually judge audio quality. You would think also that the camcorders would have a RTN output nearer the xlr inputs so the snake cables didn’t need to have a built in splitter. Which by the way doesn’t always reach the headphone out or gets in the way of some other function on the camcorder.

>> That’s why I spec Sony MDR7506 headphones. They are some of the highest sensitivity headphones on the market. That sensitivity means you get more volume so you can hear whats going on. And I ALWAYS listen in return almost all of the time.

Ty Ford
Cow Audio Forum Leader

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[Craig Alan]

[Ty Ford] “>>and during the shoot on a second by second basis.”

I tell them to ride the gain knob and work with their talent but as you are suggesting that’s the hard part to get across. Some get it and some don’t. There is no set it and forget it in audio. Attention span and today’s students do not always go hand in hand. However we are just starting to set up our post lab and when kids edit and try to put their projects together they learn why production practices are what they are.

[Ty Ford] “Manuals are frequently written to be somewhat conservative and frequently by people who are not users. “

Thank you. I know from experience that a voice that peaks at -20 is too low. We do not have a sound proof rooms and it’s never that quiet. I expect that from the camcorder manuals where the manual’s style is not written with production techniques in mind but rather just an overall guide to buttons and options. But sound devices was founded by audio pros that listen to end users.

[Ty Ford] “>> That’s why I spec Sony MDR7506 headphones. They are some of the highest sensitivity headphones on the market. That sensitivity means you get more volume so you can hear whats going on. And I ALWAYS listen in return almost all of the time.”

I use 2, one for the cam op and one for the audio tech. Its just really hard to judge audio quality through the headphone out of our P2 cams. Noise is added to the signal. However the next time I take the snake out I’ll try to keep the cam’s headphone volume low and then raise the 302 headphone v output to see if that does the trick. I can see the logic in always listening to the recorder’s output which might reveal problems that the mixer’s input does not since its further down the chain. However at that volume the cam op will probably not hear much. You’ll probably point out that is not the cam op’s job. gotcha.

Thanks for staying with me on this, Ty. It would be so much easier if there was one type of metering system.

PS: I noticed a section in the 302 manual where they give you the option to calibrate the mixer and cam where the audio clips. That might be an interesting option for camera’s that do not mark where -20 is on their meter. I’d prefer to know where -12 (cam meter) is on the mixer but I guess it just doesn’t correspond. Why 0=-20 but ?=-12 does not compute I still don’t get but I really just want good audio.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.