mixing PAL and NTSC clips in iDVD or DVD Pro

[Chang Dek]

Alexander, thank you for the detailed and very helpful post. I tried a NTSC to PAL (simple DV PAL setting) conversion and it produced results that I was unable to fault.

I was initially experiencing render issues in FCP sequence timeline, I mistakenly though it was sufficient to change the PAL or NTSC settings in the FCP/ video and audio settings, then I changed the FCP/sequence/settings from the top toolbar and that appears to have fixed the need to render clips in sequence timeline.
I suppose it doesnt make any difference if I edit the clips in original NTSC or convert to PAL then edit?
Again thanks for valuable advice.

Chang

[Rafael Amador]

hi Chang,
As Alexander points, the standard conversion with Compressor is very good, but in the moment you set Frame control to “Custom” the process became very, very slow.

[Chang Dek] ”
I suppose it doesnt make any difference if I edit the clips in original NTSC or convert to PAL then edit”
Chang, you have to try to organize your workflow in a way that you avoid unnecessaries rendering-exporting processes. Every time you render, your movie get degraded ( Mostly when you are working with a format as compressed as DV and with pictures that you have extracted from DVDs) so if you can do everything in one step, the best of the best for your movie.
You can edit your NTSC sequence (and color correct or whatever). When finished, drop it in a PAL sequence and use the Nattresse Standard Conversion and render. You do everything at the same time.
rafael

PPC G5 2x2Gh 4GbRAM/BlackMagic SD/PMBP 17″Core2Duo 4GbRAM
JVC DTV-17″/FCS2/AE CS3/COMBUSTION/SHAKE

[Chang Dek]

Hi Rafael,
Thanks for your input. I have decided to not use the VTS files if I can help it, and I am working with NTSC DV files originals that I have found of the same DVD’s

I dont think I have the Natresse standards conversion application.
Can I edit NTSC and then export from FCP via Compressor into 10 bit uncompressed PAL DV or just PAL DV? Use those to build my DVD?

Thank you,

Chang

[Rafael Amador]

[Chang Dek] “I dont think I have the Natresse standards conversion applicati”
If you will need to transcode NTSC-PAL often, you should think about to get it.

[Chang Dek] “Can I edit NTSC and then export from FCP via Compressor into 10 bit uncompressed PAL DV or just PAL DV? Use those to build my DVD? “
Yes, use one of the “PAL Advanced standard conversion’ presets. 8 or 10b Unc.
Export a short clip with “Frame control” off. If is OK export all your film like that. If you set “Frame control” to custom the rendering can be really long.
If you export with “frame control” OFF, don’t forget that your PAL 8/10b movie will be “Lower first” (same as source). This you will need to remember when you make your MPG2. Normally 8/10b Unc are “Upper-first”, but as long as Compressor understand which is the real field order, yo will have not interlacing problem.
rafael

PPC G5 2x2Gh 4GbRAM/BlackMagic SD/PMBP 17″Core2Duo 4GbRAM
JVC DTV-17″/FCS2/AE CS3/COMBUSTION/SHAKE

[Rafael Amador]

Hi again Chang.
Sorry but i think I’ve give you a wrong tip.
When you use compressor for the transcoding, set “Frame control” ON. But do not change any of the parameters.
If the result do not please you, you can set the “Resize” and “Deinterlace” to BEST. This will increase a lot the time for rendering.
The “Rate conversion” just let it in FAST. You are going from NTSC to PAL, so you need to dischard images (from 30ps to 25ps).
If you would go from PAL to NTSC you will need to create new in-between frames so would be interesting set it to BETTER or BEST. But this is not your case.
rafael

PPC G5 2x2Gh 4GbRAM/BlackMagic SD/PMBP 17″Core2Duo 4GbRAM
JVC DTV-17″/FCS2/AE CS3/COMBUSTION/SHAKE

[Alexander Kallas]

[Chang Dek] “Hi Rafael,
Thanks for your input. I have decided to not use the VTS files if I can help it, and I am working with NTSC DV files originals that I have found of the same DVD’s

I dont think I have the Natresse standards conversion application.
Can I edit NTSC and then export from FCP via Compressor into 10 bit uncompressed PAL DV or just PAL DV? Use those to build my DVD?
“

No point in going to 10-bit uncompressed if your final delivery is in mpeg2 for DVD.
Once converted, just edit all your media to completion in the DV Codec in your FCP timeline, then encode your assets to mpeg2. Use Compressor for this if using DVDSP.
(iDVD won’t take m2v files and does the encoding, but not with the control of Compressor)
Short answer, DVDSP and Compressor for better quality.

Cheers
Alexander

[Rafael Amador]

[Alexander Kallas] “No point in going to 10-bit uncompressed if your final delivery is in mpeg2 for DV”
Why not? I shoot DV and I master in 8 or 10b Unc before to go to MPG2. The only way to get something decent from DV footage.
Rafael

PPC G5 2x2Gh 4GbRAM/BlackMagic SD/PMBP 17″Core2Duo 4GbRAM
JVC DTV-17″/FCS2/AE CS3/COMBUSTION/SHAKE

[Alexander Kallas]

[Rafael Amador] “Why not? I shoot DV and I master in 8 or 10b Unc before to go to MPG2. The only way to get something decent from DV footage.
Rafael
“

DV is DV, you are just generating larger files when you go to 8 or 10 bit uncomp.
This WILL look better, but only on your Mac.
Do a test, go DV> m2v, and DV>8-bit>m2v,(same data rate for both tests) and look at the burnt results on the same DVD player,
I see no quality difference.
The only advantage may be when adding graphics before mpeg2 encoding, but it won’t
improve the picture itself.
What is your experience and rational?

Cheers
Alexander

[Rafael Amador]

Hi Alexander,
You are right if you just cut your DV footage you won’t see much differnce when exporting as 8 or 10b Unc. but if you treat a little your DV footage (Color correction, Chroma Smoothing/Sharpening) the difference is huge.
Alexander, think that when you render (even if your footage is DV 411 or 420) you render in 444. If you treat your DV footage and then export as DV again, your are throwing away 75% of the color information. If you export as 8b Unc, you will discard only 50% of that color information. This is the reason why many people shot DV or DV50 but master in 8/10b Unc.
Also this is the reason why now many people shot HDV and edit in Prores.
Please try this: Put a DV clip in a DV sequence, make some color grading and apply any of the Nattress Chroma rebuilding effects (Nicer or Chroma Smoothing?Sharpening). Then just change the sequence codec to 8 or 10b Unc. I swear that you will notice the difference.
Another think that you must consider is that although the MPG2 (from Compressor) are 420, this is very different that the 420 used in DV PAL. The image sampling is done in a different fashion so you will get advantages when your master is 8 or 10b Unc.
rafael

PPC G5 2x2Gh 4GbRAM/BlackMagic SD/PMBP 17″Core2Duo 4GbRAM
JVC DTV-17″/FCS2/AE CS3/COMBUSTION/SHAKE

[Chang Dek]

Hi Alexander and Rafael,
Thanks for the brainstorming; being a novice FCP user, I will try to keep it simple.

I plan to edit my NTSC DV footage in DV NTSC on FCP, add graphics, make color corrections, sharpen and then (hopefully) use the best codec for the standard conversion in Compressor and conversion to MPG2 for DVDSP ( can this be done as a one step process?)

Can someone advise the steps I need to take? My files are all mostly about 40-60 seconds.

Thank you both!

Chang