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Forums Adobe Premiere Pro Mixing framerates in timeline (Still don’t understand)

  • Mixing framerates in timeline (Still don’t understand)

  • Jon Shank

    August 5, 2016 at 11:41 pm

    For some reason I can’t seem to grasp this.

    Say I’m shooting a sports video with one camera. I want the option to slow down any portion of it so I want to shoot ALL of it in 60p. However the end product will be in 30p (I can interpret the footage to make it slowmotion).

    But what’s gonna happen with the native 60p footage that I decide I don’t want in slow motion. Will it be skippy?

    Also, say it was reversed and I was shooting in 24p but for some reason had to put it in a 30p timeline. What would that look like rendered out?

  • Jon Shank

    August 6, 2016 at 1:53 pm

    I heard it was bad to shoot 30 and export in 24 so why is it okay to shoot 60 and export in 30?

    Also how will 24 exported at 30 look specifically, I’m trying to get a fundamental understanding of the effects of doing this.

  • Gary Huff

    August 6, 2016 at 4:19 pm

    [Jon Shank] “I heard it was bad to shoot 30 and export in 24 so why is it okay to shoot 60 and export in 30?”

    Because one is evenly divisible and one is not.

    [Jon Shank] “Also how will 24 exported at 30 look specifically, I’m trying to get a fundamental understanding of the effects of doing this.”

    Are you unable to do a test export on a 24p project and see for yourself?

  • Jon Shank

    August 6, 2016 at 6:36 pm

    I’m new to this stuff and don’t notice a huge difference so I’m asking what specifically to look for besides it just being bad. I want to understand this on a fundamental level.

  • Jeff Coleman

    August 6, 2016 at 7:40 pm

    The following discussions may help:

    Mixing 23.976 and 29.97 footage – Premiere CC
    https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/3/946556

    Shooting in 24p, editing in 30p, easiest workflow?
    https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/8/1112879

    Mixing Frame Rates short tutorial
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShHXl6flbew

    Mixing 24p and 30p in PPro
    https://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?71465-Combining-24fps-amp-30fps-in-Adobe-CS5-5

    Film on 60 fps, then convert to 24fps in Post? or film directly on 24fps?
    https://nofilmschool.com/boards/questions/film-60-fps-then-convert-24fps-post-or-film-directly-24fps

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  • Jon Shank

    August 6, 2016 at 8:52 pm

    I’ve already read those and they all talk about how you should shoot the way you want to export and that it will delete or add frames accordingly. My question is what visually will it look like if I added 24p footage into a timeline with 30p footage. Will the end product show noticeable difference between the native 30 and the 24 I added? If so what will it look like? Staccato? Blurry?

  • Jeff Coleman

    August 6, 2016 at 10:15 pm

    Exactly what it will look like kind of depends upon the footage. You may want to test a piece of footage of the type you’ll be shooting or shoot a piece of test footage and see how it looks.

    To get 24p into a 30p timeline requires Premiere to repeat frames as those threads suggest. If you are watching something that is not moving or not moving much, I don’t think you are going to see much of a difference really, but it may have a subtle difference in feel. The more movement, the more observable the repeating frames will be, thus creating a kind of staccato feel. Some people actually like a bit of that look as it looks less real, less broadcast tv as if you could sense the realization that you are watching the cellulose instead of a live image—extraordinary, cinematic, etc. I’ve had projects that have done all the interviews in 24p and all the b-roll in 30p and dropped it into a 30p timeline. It makes the interviews look different while the b-roll doesn’t suffer from the artifacts of pulldown. For me, the more motion then the less I like it because it starts to feel like there’s something wrong. Perhaps shoot in 60p, 30p, and 24p a close up of a football pass from throw to completion and drop them into a 30p timeline and see what they look like to you. Try the same for an interview. Subjective mileage varies. Hope that helps.

    Notice Mr. Williams comment here:
    https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/8/1112879

    “Re: Shooting in 24p, editing in 30p, easiest workflow?
    by Bret Williams on Dec 3, 2010 at 12:23:31 am

    24p at 30p simply duplicates every 4th frame. The worst cadence you could ask for. It’s not done anywhere I can think of. … 24p at 30p isn’t a very optimal or accepted practice. What happens when you add graphics or motion effects that are interacting on another timebase than the 24p footage? It would exaggerate the stutter.for example a logo flying across the screen would move at 30p, while the footage behind it would freeze frame momentarily while the graphic continues to move. This would occur on 20% of the frames.”

    and Mr. Okey has a strong opinion on that thread as well:
    “Don’t use 2:2:2:4 pulldown. Even a partially blind person can see its atrocious motion effects. Using 2:2:2:4 pulldown really is unprofessional. If you drop native 24p footage into a 30p sequence in FCP, 2:2:2:4 pulldown is what you’ll get. Just don’t do it.”

  • Jon Shank

    August 7, 2016 at 1:40 am

    Thank you so much for the informative post!

    I guess my last question, is there any downside to bringing 60p to 24 timeline for slow motion instead of a 30p timeline.

  • Jon Shank

    August 8, 2016 at 4:13 pm

    Sorry I worded that wrong.

    So 60 to 30 is okay (no slowmotion).

    Is 60 to 24 bad in the same way 30 to 24 is?

  • Jon Shank

    August 8, 2016 at 5:45 pm

    Got it, so to make a little cheat sheet for myself

    (This is non-conformed footage)

    30 in 24 timeline = bad
    60 in 24 timeline = okay
    60 in 30 timeline = good

    If anyone cares to explain the math to me (not a huge deal if not cause I get the gist but I am interested)

    Why is 30 in a 24 timeline crap but 60 in a 24 timeline okay?

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