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Mixing frame rates: Apple’s culpability in end user confusion
Most regular readers of this forum can attest to how frequently threads are started in which well-meaning inexperienced users express frustration with problems and artifacts they encounter when trying to work with multiple formats and frame rates in the same sequence. I think Apple bears some of the responsibility for this because of their marketing.
From Apple’s FCP website:
Open format Timeline
The open format Timeline in Final Cut Pro 7 lets you mix and match source material in a wide range of formats and even different frame rates — just drag your footage into the Timeline. Freely edit a combination of HD and SD, including NTSC and PAL, all in real time. Final Cut Pro 7 offers real-time scaling and playback for video in various camera-native formats as well as members of the Apple ProRes family.
Without getting into semantics about whether editing includes finishing, I think that marketing drivel like this gives many new or inexperienced users the false impression that they don’t need to worry about conforming footage to one frame rate. I think this may explain some of the frustration that these users express when they are given advice on this forum on how to conform footage, and they find that the proper workflow is actually quite a bit more complicated than what they expected after reading Apple’s propaganda.
Conforming footage may seem natural or second-nature to those of us who have been using FCP for a long time, but after I read through some of Apple’s marketing materials I have to say that I’m pretty disappointed that they gloss over the complexity of working with mixed format footage. In my opinion, what Apple is doing borders on misinformation and dishonesty.
Yeah, I know… News flash! Companies stretch the truth in their advertising! News at 11! Apple’s no different in this regard, but I guess I just expect better form them.
Thoughts?
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13 Replies
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Yeah, that is a complete load of poo. Stupid marketting.
On the other hand, the Avid MIX AND MATCH does what that claims, and does it well. I’ve tested it and it is solid. Finally, a claim that is true!
That statement leads to more and more hours of fixing other people’s disasters.
Shane
GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def -
I remember seeing this at NAB and being real doubtful about it. I take this stuff as marketing speak, unfortunately it is par for the course. It does add confusing and disappointment to new users. It is a great feature when you need to drop in a clip or two but if you have a lot of mix formats you need to have a plan that includes transcoding to a single codec, framerate and size.
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I’ve got news for you, Alan, plenty of people were doing this before Apple decided to endorse it with the “Open Timeline”. People have cut entire features in the wrong timebase, the wrong resolution, the wrong trousers, the wrong shoe on the wrong foot, etc. Look back for threads on how “the entire timeline needs rendering after every cut.” They go back as far as there’s been a forum for FCP on the COW, and the answer then & now is the same.
Arnie
Post production is not an afterthought!
https://www.arniepix.com/ -
The other truth is that not everyone is using FCP for broadcast or theatrical. So for professional users providing contents for the web and mobile and other non-broadcast delivery, the open format timeline works just fine for them.
I myself work in broadcast so I understand the points given here but we tend to forget that there are “other” professional editors out there editing contents for other mediums.
CHL
Chi-Ho Lee
Film & Television Editor
Apple Certified Final Cut Pro Trainer
http://www.chiholee.com -
Sorry, but I don’t buy that a 2:2:2:4 cadence looks any less crappy on the web or a mobile phone than it does in broadcast.
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Hello Alan,
I am clearly one of those new inexperienced users, who fell for this exact piece of Apple marketing!
But the project being underway as we speak, I ask, could you help?
Here is my situation:
……….:A film (1 hour aprox.) is being made based on footage coming from 2 HDV cameras (both 1080i) one PAL, the other NTSC. All tapes (from both cameras) were captured using Apple Pro Res 422.
The project is being edited in Final Cut Pro 7 (latest) and needs to be delivered primarily in PAL for broadcast in Television. (NTSC possibly later).Problem:
When a sample that includes both PAL and NTSC clips is exported as PAL, all originally NTSC sections show jerky movements (especially where movement is involved).
Question:
Final Cut Pro 7 boasts about being able to accept a mix of a wide array of formats, frame rates…ect on the same timeline and edit them without much fuss. What happens next though? How do we export the final edited product without mentioned jerky issues? Do we really need to convert all NTSC clips to PAL (Nattress and similar) prior to editing?
Please, help.
Thank you
Petr Myska -
Thank you Dave,
From the previous posts on this thread I had understood that. Although this is quite disappointing, I needed to hear the “bad news” to clarify things. Would you have though any suggestion to my situation? (description included in my last post).
Thank you
Petr Myska -
[Dave LaRonde] “Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but Apple LIED. “
The more I’ve thought about this since the first post on the subject back in February, the more I tend to agree. Vegas, Edius, and Premiere actually do the job, so one would have to say that Apple simply does make the claim falsely.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los AngelesPOST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
EPK Colorist – UP IN THE AIR – nominated for six academy awards
A forum host of Creative COW’s Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.
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Thank you Dave,
I think I understand quite well. We have Nattress. I just wish there was an easier way to do this. It is a lot of footage!
best regards
Petr -
[Petr Myska] “I just wish there was an easier way to do this. It is a lot of footage! “
This IS the easy way! You should have been trying to do this before Nattress came along…or Compressor. Your only option was a post facility and a lot of $$.
Shane
GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def
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