Mixing DVCPRO 60 29.97fps & RED ProRes 23.98 on a timeline.

[Shane Ross]

You have to convert the footage at least to the same frame rate. You can mix formats fine, but frame rates are a big issue. It would be best in the planning stage to NOT shoot different frame rates if you can help it.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def

[Sean Kapleton]

Hey shane thanks for the fast response.

Any further clarification on the converting i.e. whether to change the 23.98 to 29.97 or vice versa and if so the best recommended practice (compressor, AE, cinema tools etc).

Also how the mixing of this footage could effect the HDCAM 1080i layoff if i dont convert everything to one format. Normally if the footage were all 23.98 I would have just done the conversion on the fly during layoff using my blackmagic card and setting the output in FCP to 23.976>59.94

In terms of the shooting of the footage – i just am on the post end of this project and had nothing to do with the production nor do I have any say on what clients come to me and how the shoot there footage.

thanks
sean

[Shane Ross]

[Sean Kapleton] “Any further clarification on the converting i.e. whether to change the 23.98 to 29.97 or vice versa and if so the best recommended practice (compressor, AE, cinema tools etc). “

Use Compressor. Turn the FRAME CONTROLS on. Retiming: (Fast), Nearest frame. Resize: Statistical Prediction. Deinterlace Filter Fast (Line Averaging). Adaptive details: Off. Field output: Top Field First.

Now, some reading on this topic…

https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/8/1060747#1061389
https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/8/1029669#1029815
https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/8/1010726#1015141

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def

[Sean Kapleton]

thank you for the links shane i will read them now.

Also can you just clarify which footage you are advising me to perform this compressor procedure on 23.98>29.97 or the other way around?

thanks
sean

[Shane Ross]

The procedure I posted was for 23.98 to 29.97.

You are doing a 29.97 output right? Well, actually, the question I should ask is what frame rate do you have the most of? Because the capture card can add the proper pulldown to the 23.98 footage when you output to tape…but you can’t mix frame rates because FCP itself doesn’t add the proper pulldown. So everything needs to be either 29.97, or 23.98.

Also, going 29.97 to 23.98 will film look the footage. Do you want that?

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def

[Sean Kapleton]

ok thats what I thought so but using cinema tools or AE is not going to get any better or faster looking results than Compressor?

Yes as I mentioned in my post I am outputing to HDCAMsr 1080i 29.97 and normally i would just do the conversion on the fly to the 23.98 footage if my sequence only consisted of that format..which is does not.

Because the edit is still being done I cannot give you a precise idea of what the ratio of 23.98 RED footage is to the 29.97 DVCPRO interview footage BUT once I do know what would you suggest for either results?

Is it ok for the editor to just cut as is and then when picture is locked I convert all the 23.98 footage to 29.97 in compressor, AE or Cinema tools and bring back in and replace those shots for the 29.97 layoff?

thank you for your help Shane its much appreciated.

sean

[Shane Ross]

[Sean Kapleton] “Because the edit is still being done I cannot give you a precise idea of what the ratio of 23.98 RED footage is to the 29.97 DVCPRO interview footage”

But the SHOOTING is done, no? Or do you mean the capture isn’t done? I know you are only the editor and they are a client that brought you footage, so the fault isn’t yours….it is theirs. They (typically) put ZERO thought into the post process. They didn’t consult with any post people before they went and shot this. So now you (typically) have to clean up this mess.

[Sean Kapleton] “BUT once I do know what would you suggest for either results? “

Find out what LOOK the client wants. Do they want the 29.97 to look like 29.97? or to have the 23.98 film look? Depending on that answer, your workflow will become apparent. They might only want the 23.98 to look like film, and the rest to look 29.97 smooth.

[Sean Kapleton] “Is it ok for the editor to just cut as is and then when picture is locked I convert all the 23.98 footage to 29.97 in compressor, AE or Cinema tools and bring back in and replace those shots for the 29.97 layoff? “

No. Convert beforehand. Otherwise you’ll be spending a lot of time tracking and extracting the different frame rate footage, putting it into a sequence that matches it’s frame rate (that will cause gaps to appear in the cut), media managing the footage you use…then compressing the smaller footaege, then bringing it back in and dropping the footage back into the sequence, then going shot by shot to make sure that it is still in sync, that there are no black gaps…all sorts of stuff.

Why not set a conversion to happen overnight, or two nights, while you are home sleeping, and then be done with it?

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def

[Sean Kapleton]

wow great reply shane than kyou for the info.

last questions – i just did a quick test with one of the shorter RED ProRes hq clips rendering in AE making it upper fields 29.97 and it looks great – will compressor have equal results? I was going to do a test in Compressor right now and I just want to make sure I select the correct format to begin with before doing all of the settings u suggested in your earlier response.

Since it is progressive 23.98 1080 footage what should i be checking in format conversions to start?

cheers
sean

[Shane Ross]

[Sean Kapleton] ” i just did a quick test with one of the shorter RED ProRes hq clips rendering in AE making it upper fields 29.97 and it looks great – will compressor have equal results?”

Check and see. The only way you are going to know is if you look for yourself.

[Sean Kapleton] “Since it is progressive 23.98 1080 footage what should i be checking in format conversions to start? “

Whatever format the other footage is, so that you don’t have to render. If it is interlaced, your footage wll be interlaced.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def