Mixing 29.97 and 23.98 seems okay to me.

[Michael Sacci]

The issue is normally when trying to go the other way. 29.97 into a 23.98 sequence. If you want the cleanest 24p look editing in a 29.97 hurts that.

[Shane Ross]

FCP removes…or adds…pulldown improperly. 2:2:2:4 instead of 2:3:3:2. So you will see A, B, C, D, D when you mix formats. Or the odd frame just pulled out. Playback isn’t as smooth as it is with proper pulldown. You might not be able to see it, your editors might not (guess it takes a trained eye?), but to a lot of people it will look wrong…and the network might reject it due to cadence errors. But, they might not.

Shane

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[John Heagy]

It is a subtle difference… three fields vs four. Where you will notice the 4 fields is if the repeated frames happen on a cut, even more so if its on both sides of a cut. You will see a “pause” then the cut.

[John Heagy]

[Dave LaRonde] “If it’s 1080 and not 720, it wasn’t true 23.976 footage. It was actually 59.94i footage containing 3:2 pulldown. They give it a fancy name now: Progressive Segmented Frame.
“

Are you saying one can’t shoot 1080p 24?.. because you can. Also, PSF is truly progressive and does not contain 3:2 pulldown.

[John Barnard]

You know, looking at it closely I think the final cut pulldown might be visible on rapid pans, but that could also be the inherent strobiness that seems to come from 24p video. Luckily the program doesn’t have many of those.

John

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[Jeremy Garchow]

[John Barnard] “It seems everyone on this forum is bothered by the result of final cut-added pulldown but I couldn’t see the problem. Am I missing something? “

I would think so, yes.

I am confident that your 24p footage has 2224 pulldown added to it. Look at a 24p clip and watch it frame by frame in your 29.97 sequence. My guess is that after four frames, the fourth frame is duplicated.

Frame 1, 2, 3, 4, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 8, etc.

Jeremy

[John Heagy]

[Dave LaRonde] “Read more closely: I’m saying that you CAN shoot at 23.976 frames/sec, but because of the limitations inherent in most cameras at the 1080 resolution, it can’t RECORD the video at 23.976 frames/sec. It has to be recorded at 59.94i, with 3:2 pulldown added to distribute the slower frame rate properly.

Kapiche? “

[Dave LaRonde] “[John Barnard] “23.98 HD footage (XDCAM)”

If it’s 1080 and not 720, it wasn’t true 23.976 footage. It was actually 59.94i footage containing 3:2 pulldown. They give it a fancy name now: Progressive Segmented Frame. . “

Dave:

Sorry but no amount of “reading between the lines” would allow one to gleam your meaning from the above quote. Even with your explanation your premise is still incorrect. 1080p 23.976 exists in true progressive native form in XDCam, along with many others. DVCProHD is the only prof. format that does 24p as 60i with 3:2, and that’s only because of it’s tape roots.

[Dave LaRonde] “John Heagy: ” PSF is truly progressive and does not contain 3:2 pulldown. ”

That’s pure, unadulterated BALONEY. Who’s been teaching you about video, anyway? “

Okay… now this is almost as much fun as popping bubble pack. Sorry Dave, but you are incorrect. I’d tell you to check your facts, but you already did and you still don’t understand.

So you believe 24 PsF is 24p with 3:2 pulldown? This is dead wrong. 23.976 1080p is truly progressive, even as PsF. PsF is simply a means to and end, the end being being a true progressive image. You seem to think 24p can only exist in 60i with 3:2, this is simply 1080i60. Let’s get this straight before I explain further.

Here’s my esteemed colleague’s explanation of PsF: https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/8/1089254

[Dave LaRonde] “Before you start pontificating, why don’t you get your facts straight?”

That’s funny…

John Heagy

[Dana Strom]

Maybe I shouldn’t have been operating under assumptions, but seeing as how FCP adds a proper 3:2 cadence to a 24p (yes, 23.98) clip when dropping into a 720p60 sequence, I thought we wouldn’t have problems working some acquired 24p HD footage into our 1080i timeline…

When I watched it back, the stutter was obvious enough for me, and therefore for a QC flag… which I do my best to avoid at all cost.

So it’s the interlacing process that FCP can’t handle? It can only assign cadence progressive frames? I was okay with that because my second assumption was that Cinema Tools must surely be able to handle this type of thing… right?

Nope. Even the official documentation seems to run you around in circles… ‘FCP and Compressor can add pulldowns to your 23.98 footage…’ but the reality is that the best either of them can do is a 2:2:2:4 cadence.

Does anything in the FCP sweet do this? Apparently Compressor does. After some research, I found a few threads that helped me to solve the issue. The secret is to put the 24p clip in compressor, apply a compression setting that matches all the settings, then select 29.97 for the frame rate and IMPORTANT: turn on frame controls, and choose ‘bottom field’ for field dominance.

That seems to do the trick… now Apple just needs to include a filter, compressor setting or function in Cinema Tools to do this because no, a 2:2:2:4 cadence is NOT up to broadcast par.

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Dana Strom] “So it’s the interlacing process that FCP can’t handle?”

Not for adding proper 3:2 pulldown, no, it can’t handle it.

[Dana Strom] “I was okay with that because my second assumption was that Cinema Tools must surely be able to handle this type of thing… right?”

It can remove pulldown, but not add it.

[Dana Strom] “MPORTANT: turn on frame controls, and choose ‘bottom field’ for field dominance.”

If going to NTSC yes, for 1080 it would be upper. That, and the leave the “Rate Conversion” to “fast”.

Here’s a complete description for going from 1080p23.98 to 1080i29.97. You would need to adjust the appropriate settings for NTSC, namely frame size and field order:

https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/8/1033717

Jeremy