max quality render settings DV AVI to MPEG-2

[John Rofrano]

[Ryosuke Asuka] “What i’ve been doing so far is starting with the DVD NTSC profile, setting the i-frames to max (30), b frames to 0 and putting the highest bitrate it allows 9.8mbps. I also have profile and level set to high- not sure what those do yet though…”

It is quite common for new video editors to say, “I want the highest quality possible so I pushed every setting to the max” but that is not the correct approach. You are changing settings like profiles and by your own admission you have no idea what they do. This is a sure way to get into trouble.

Vegas comes with MPEG2 templates for DVD Architect. Try using them first and see if you like the quality. Then if something bothers you, just try and fix that.

[Ryosuke Asuka] “On a side note, what I’d REALLY like to be able to do is adjust the encode settings and have it show me beforehand what the resulting file size would be, so I don’t have to keep rendering, checking what it looks like, and then doing it again to experiment.”

Then learn to use a Bitrate Calculator. It will tell you what bitrate to use given the length of your video and size of you media.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com

[Nigel O’neill]

Using a higher bit rate will not only result in a larger than necessary file, but could make your footage unplayable or skip in some DVD players. The maximum bit rate for DV is around 8 mbps.

As John suggests, using a bit rate calculator in conjunction with variable bit 2 pass rendering can improve quality of long projects e.g. more than 90 minutes.

Intel i7 920, 12GB RAM, ASUS P6T, Vegas Pro 10 (x32/x64), Windows 7 x64 Ultimate, Vegas Production Assistant 1.0, VASST Ultimate S Pro 4.1, Neat Video Pro 2.6

[Ryosuke Asuka]

Thanks, I really appreciate the responses. And I totally agree- I’m admitting I’m changing settings that I don’t fully understand and know that’s not the smartest thing which is why I’m asking. I did try to do some research before hand, and it DID seem from the descriptions of their purpose that raising i-frames and lowering b-frames would raise quality, but I know a lot less than the people here…

I didn’t realize there was a max bitrate for DVDs, that definitely gives me a better understanding of what my limitations are on that format. The main thing I wanted to get at here is that space concerns are much less of an issue to me than quality. I wanted to know what settings I should use to get the best quality possible, see how much space THAT would take, and then if I think that’s too much, experiment with dialing down the quality to something that gives me an acceptable balance of quality space. I have been experimenting with the existing pre-created profiles as suggested, and I’m sure those are ‘acceptable’, but I’d really like to know the ceiling for best quality encode so I can compare based on that.

[Nigel O’neill]

The templates are there for a reason and generally do a good job.

You can increase the bit rate, but some DVD players may not play your discs.

Even though you are editing in HD or HDV, if you are delivering a standard definition DVD, upping the bit rate beyond specs will not make much of a visual difference.

If you are delivering in blu-ray, use the blu-ray template. You will be amazed at the difference.

Intel i7 920, 12GB RAM, ASUS P6T, Vegas Pro 10 (x32/x64), Windows 7 x64 Ultimate, Vegas Production Assistant 1.0, VASST Ultimate S Pro 4.1, Neat Video Pro 2.6

[John Rofrano]

[Ryosuke Asuka] ” but I’d really like to know the ceiling for best quality encode so I can compare based on that.”

Fair enough. As Nigel pointed out, 8Mbps is the max you should use for a DVD. So start with the DVD Architect template that fits your footage, change the bit rate to CBR 8,000,000 bps and that’s as good as it gets. Playing with the GOP structure or profiles will probably make your DVD unplayable. Just adjust the bit rate to your liking.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com

[Ryosuke Asuka]

Thank you all, for the advice, I will go with what you have suggested.

Out of curiosity, can you tell me what the “GOP Structure” means? Does this refer to the things like i-frames, b-frames, level etc?
Even if my bitrate is at or below the limit for standard DVD, you mean that these things can still cause it to be unplayable in a DVD player?

[John Rofrano]

[Ryosuke Asuka] “Out of curiosity, can you tell me what the “GOP Structure” means? Does this refer to the things like i-frames, b-frames, level etc?”

GOP stands for Group Of Pictures and does refer to I-Frames, B-Frames, and P-Frames. I-Frames are the only frames that contain an entire image. the B & P-Frames are delta and predictive frames that only contain the changes since the last I-Frame. This is why it takes more processing power to handle codecs that use a long GOP. If you park the playback head on the 14th frame of a 15 frame GOP, Vegas has to processes all 13 frames before it (back to the last I-Frame) before it can construct the current frame. Profiles and levels are subsets of the MPEG2 standard because no device can support everything in the standard.

[Ryosuke Asuka] “Even if my bitrate is at or below the limit for standard DVD, you mean that these things can still cause it to be unplayable in a DVD player?”

Yes. If you set the profiles and levels incorrectly your DVD player might not be able to play your movie. Some profiles are for HD while others are for SD DVD and they are all part of the same MPEG2 standard format.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com

[Ryosuke Asuka]

I see, thanks. Ok, I think I am on my way now, I just have 2 more questions-

1- you guys said 8mbps is the highest I should use for dvd, but I see some places say 9.8 is the max for DVD. is 8 the highest ‘safe’ bitrate but some players can do up to 9.8 or something?

2- I don’t see a dvd architect profile for a full audio/video render, but I see one for video streams. “DVD NTSC” has both audio and video though. I’m wondering- I read someone saying before that if you don’t want programs like DVD architect to reencode your file (since it’s already dvd compliant) you should render video and audio separately or something? Would you suggest the same, using the dvd architect video stream and then doing audio separately?

I don’t have dvd architect, I have ulead dvd moviefactory 6 at the moment. But I definitely do want to make sure that my video does not get encoded again and lose any quality…I just want to put what I get out of Vegas onto DVD.

[John Rofrano]

[Ryosuke Asuka] “1- you guys said 8mbps is the highest I should use for dvd, but I see some places say 9.8 is the max for DVD. is 8 the highest ‘safe’ bitrate but some players can do up to 9.8 or something?”

Yes, the DVD specification allows for up to 9.8Mbps but some players will skip at this bit-rate. It’s best to not exceed 8Mbps.

[Ryosuke Asuka] “2- I don’t see a dvd architect profile for a full audio/video render, but I see one for video streams. “DVD NTSC” has both audio and video though. I’m wondering- I read someone saying before that if you don’t want programs like DVD architect to reencode your file (since it’s already dvd compliant) you should render video and audio separately or something? Would you suggest the same, using the dvd architect video stream and then doing audio separately?”

You should render two streams. One for video and the other for Dolby Digital AC3 audio. This will keep DVD Architect from having to re-encode anything. It will simply mux the streams into the DVD VOB file format.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com