Mac Pro – Thoughts? Winner or Loser?

[Walter Soyka]

[Lance Bachelder] “It’s been the opposite with my iMac – I don’t even use the AC anymore. My old Mac Pro was a space heater, I was spending hundreds per month on AC! And my new Thunderbolt external storage is quieter and cooler than my old racked raid and internal storage.”

Moore’s Law helps. Newer CPUs do more with less power than older ones. I didn’t have to heat my office in the winter back in the G5 days; I just had to render something.

My argument is essentially that the new Mac Pro doesn’t conserve space, power, or heat — it just shifts it outside the computer case with all-external expansion.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events

[Jeremy Garchow]

[larry towers] “This is seriously painful for me. We have a bunch of 2008 computers to replace. This will work for some. But it is not the computing powerhouse we needed it to be for the future. We can’t afford to upgrade computers every other year. This computer is only impressive today. With no expandability that runs at processor bus speed it is designed to be disposable. SO seriously disappointed.”

I’m just curious, but what WOULD have been good enough?

Announcing a MacPro with processors that won’t be ready until 2016 becuase they are so new they are vaporware?

How much newer do you need it to be?

And how do you know, for a fact, that this machine won’t work?

I’m not saying its perfect for everyone, clearly it’s not, but I’m wondering how you know Thunderbolt 2 won’t be good enough?

[Walter Soyka]

[Jeremy Garchow] “I’m just curious, but what WOULD have been good enough?”

I know you weren’t asking me, but I can’t miss an opportunity like this. I would have liked to have seen (at least) dual CPU sockets, more RAM slots, and NVIDIA instead of AMD.

Also I like it when my computer helps to heat my office.

[Jeremy Garchow] “I’m not saying its perfect for everyone, clearly it’s not, but I’m wondering how you know Thunderbolt 2 won’t be good enough?”

I am with you here. As you know, I’m one of the original Thunderbolt haters, but I think Son of Thunderbolt will cross the “fast enough” threshold for most. It’s twice as fast, so I hate it half as much.

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events

[Al Bergstein]

So IMHO the design is very cool, and again, sort of locks you into Apple expansion, I would bet.
I am unclear about whether the TB will provide the video bandwidth for many multiple monitors while simultaneously driving very fast external drives. I just don’t know yet.
More than enough RAM for my needs.
More than enough bandwidth .
If Adobe says they will support the ATI graphics set, great. We’ll see.

Biggest issue is that this is likely to be, given current Mac Pro prices, even more expensive. I have to say that I will continue to use my lower cost and very capable (maybe not as capable but plenty capable) W7 devices until this thing is shipped and wrung out in production.

I’m not going to FCPX if I can help it. Apple proved with FCP 7 that they have no idea how to market professional software to professionals. Adobes’ latest cloud efforts don’t change my mind on that in the least.

Would I love to own such a cool looking device, sure, but it’s still got to compete in the marketplace.

so, I guess, we’ll see.

Al

[Brett Sherman]

[Walter Soyka] “My argument is essentially that the new Mac Pro doesn’t conserve space, power, or heat — it just shifts it outside the computer case with all-external expansion.”

I don’t know what peripherals you guys are planning. But for me that assessment just isn’t true. I’m moving my storage to SAN or NAS anyways. And heck even now, my eSata tower uses lots of power with my “upgradeable” Mac Pro Tower.

Thunderbolt will power my Intensity Extreme. Other conceivable peripherals will also be bus powered, 10GE(?). Is there a way to power my monitors with a Mac Pro tower? Nope. So those are powered regardless. Active Monitor speakers are by definition powered. Most high-end audio interfaces have already moved off PCIE cards. So where are all the power savings with a tower computer?

The new MacPro will work well for me.

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Walter Soyka] “I know you weren’t asking me, but I can’t miss an opportunity like this. I would have liked to have seen (at least) dual CPU sockets, more RAM slots, and NVIDIA instead of AMD.”

So far, Adobe has chimed in saying that Pr will “max out” the tube.

Blackmagic has said Resolve is working well, even “screams”.

I’m sure fcpx will perform well “Can’t innovate anymore? My ass.”.

Motion will have real time 2.5D holographic projections, “I made that last one up”.

There are 4 GPU intense applications right there. Plus, how many of us are in the market for a $15k 48 core, quad gpu machine, let alone multiple $15k machines? If you are in the market, are you hiring? 🙂

[Lance Bachelder]

True but this assumes we all need multiple external devices. I already use external AJA and BMD devices and of course storage is external. In an effort to de-clutter my workspace I also eliminated audio I/O and never used mixing board. I’ll never use/want/need a Red Rocket so no need for PCI expansion box which would be the only add’l external device I can think of. But you’re right, folks relying on Kona cards or add’l Quadro cards will have to switch though many Resolve users already use some sort of expansion chassis…

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1

[Larry Towers]

Incontrovertible facts:

1-Thunderbolt 2 is only twice as fast as thunderbolt 1. Thunderbolt 1 is the equivalent of a single PCIe x4 slot, Thunderbolt 2 is twice as fast but does so combining the channels together, Thunderbolt 2 enables two 20Gbps bi-direction channels instead of two sets of 10Gbps channels. There’s NO OVERALL INCREASE IN BANDWIDTH. It is still bound to a PCIe 2.0 interface.
Big Whoop! Not nearly as fast as a SINGLE PCIe 3.0 x 16 slot.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/7049/intel-thunderbolt-2-everything-you-need-to-know

2-Intel doesn’t make a six port Thunderbolt controller. (Look it up)
https://ark.intel.com/products/series/67021
So there will likely be 3 dual port(4 channel) controllers to feed the Thunderbolt ports. This probably means bus arbitration issues when all ports are being used. (With NO on board connectivity this is a likely scenario) People dreaming of adding an expansion Chassis with Graphics cards are SOL.

As for the other items?

A real macpro would have used a standard form factor for graphics cards with a standard PCIe 3.0 x 16 slots for easy upgrades later.
8 memory slots.
A physical form factor that doesn’t demand to be placed ON a desktop where all the tangled mess of Thunderbolt cables will get in the way.

[Jeremy Garchow]

What do you perceive that you can’t get done with dual GPUs and Thunderbolt 2 connectivity?

“Thunderbolt 2 enables two 20Gbps bi-direction channels instead of two sets of 10Gbps channels. There’s no overall increase in bandwidth, but the solution is now more capable. Since there’s 20Gbps of bandwidth per channel, you can now do 4K video over Thunderbolt. You can also expect to see higher max transfer rates for storage. Whereas most Thunderbolt storage devices top out at 800 – 900MB/s, Thunderbolt 2 should raise that to around 1500MB/s (overhead and PCIe limits will stop you from getting anywhere near the max spec).”

[Larry Towers]

They keep spouting 4k as if it me4ans something! That is just for 4k presentation. Try rendering multiple 4k streams involving a 3d transform…