Mac Pro interface performance

[Nicola Scodellaro]

edit… I almost forgot the worst thing of all: it’s almost impossible to work with curves: the interface is so sluggy that I have to move the handles three or four times (with longer and longer lags) just to make a small adjustments. And this happens even in wireframe view or with caps lock on!
All in all, my biggest worry is that the upgrade from an iMac 24″ cd2 2.33 with 2 gb of ram is not so impressive from an interface point of view.

[Kevin Camp]

hello nicola, sorry to hear that things aren’t working well, but i have a few suggestions…

make sure you have the latest ae update, 8.0.2….

i’m not sure how much this will help, but there is an option in preference>display to enable hardware acceleration for interface elements, try enabling that (or disabling if it is enabled).

there is also a preference file hack that was provided by adobe (so it’s safe) that will limit the number of processors available to ‘render multiple frames simultaneously’ (note the extra processors will be available for any multiprocessor aware effects, so you will still be using those extra cores). here are the basic steps:
1. Quit After Effects.
2. Open the After Effects text preferences file, Adobe After Effects 8.0 Prefs.txt, located in the following folder:
Mac OS: Users//Library/Preferences/Adobe/After Effects/8.0
Windows XP: C:\Documents and Settings\\Application Data\Adobe\After Effects\8.0
Windows Vista: C:\Users\\AppData\Roaming\Adobe\After Effects\8.0
3. Find the [‘MP’] section.
4. Change the “MaxNumberOfProcesses” value to “5”. I’m choosing 5 to give you a full 2gb of ram for each core.
5. Save and close the preferences file.

you mentioned that you set the cache folder to a separate drive, is that drive on a separate controller than you media drive(s)? like, if you media is on an external sata or firewire drive(s) is the cache disk on something else (like an extra internal drive)? it is recommended that you keep the cache on a separate controller than you media to avoid data bottlenecking.

i’d also make sure that the system is seeing all the ram, choose apple>about this mac and make sure it sees all 10gb. if it doesn’t, click more info and select memory, look to see how the system sees the memory configuration. the macpros are very picky about how memory gets installed, and it’s possible that you’re not getting use of all the ram. even if the system can see all the ram, i think i’d recommend that you try the hardware test that came with your macpro on the install disk. follow the instruction printed on the disk to load the test and choose to run the extended test. this will thoroughly test the ram and make sure that it is all working well.

Kevin Camp
Senior Designer
KCPQ, KMYQ & KRCW

[Nicola Scodellaro]

Hi Kevin, thanks for your feedback! here’s my answers:

>> make sure you have the latest ae update, 8.0.2….

got it!

>> i’m not sure how much this will help, but there is an option in preference>display to enable hardware acceleration for interface elements, try enabling that (or disabling if it is enabled).

I already fiddled with that one without any discernible result…

>> there is also a preference file hack that was provided by adobe (so it’s safe)

I just tried this and doesn’t seem to have changed much in terms of time to launch the preview – which can be long the first time, ok, but still takes at least 30 seconds or more to begin even the subsequent previews. Also the thing that’s driving me nuts is that when I want to stop the ram preview and actually see it by pressing ‘0’ on the keypad, the beachball pops up and I’m left waiting for some 15 seconds or so.
Moreover, with the reduced processors a strange thing happened: the preview seemed way slower on the same comp I was working on before and ae stopped previewing after rendering less than threee seconds of comp, while before I was getting all the comp previewed.

>> you mentioned that you set the cache folder to a separate drive, is that drive on a separate controller than you media drive(s)?

my actual configuration is: media files on an external fw800 lacie drive, cache on the internal system disk – on which also AE is installed. I previously had the cache on an external fw400 drive, but things haven’t changed much since the switch. Do you think a third drive would help? I think I’m already out of controllers, though.

>> i’d also make sure that the system is seeing all the ram

System profiler says everything is ok. I installed the 4×4 gb plus the 2×1 gb that came with the mac pro following apple’s guidelines for ram installation to distribute the modules on the risers. I haven’t tried the hardware test yet, but I’ll let you know the results as soon as I have.

Some theories are coming to mind: could it be that because of the different brands of ram installed I’m getting this low performance in ae cs3? I’m planning to remove the original apple modules and see what happens.
Also, I repeat that I’m working with complex projects that involve with very big images, so I don’t know if the slugginess can be caused by this… things seem to get worse as I spend time on the project, so at some points every clic, every action pops a spinning beach ball. Moving keyframes even with caps lock on gets me 5 seconds of ball, as do many other seemingly simple things. My frustration comes from the fact that in this way the actual working is really fragmented and things get really unnerving given that I own one of the most powerful machines around, for the task. I know that my renders will probably be ultrafast and so on, but working like this is a painful experience!

[Nicola Scodellaro]

Hi Dave, thanks for your answer, I was beginning to blame the project, too… on your checklist i qualify only for the second one, but in large quantities!

• Big layers (like yours) with multiple — and especially animated — effects applied

And I understand that this can be the problem! So I will begin to pre render and use proxies more than I already do (which is not very much, I admit… ; ). What really irks me are the smaller, continuous, lags while I’m working – for example – on the curves with the display set to wireframe. WHY in the world the thing has to be painfully slow if I’m using wireframe? I suppose wireframe mode it’s there because if you have a really big and complex comp at least you can adjust curves without getting old… but no, I have to wait four or five seconds for the handle to follow the mouse, and then when I release the clic, the thing continues to follow the pointer invisibly and after another 5 seconds the handle is in another place, which is totally random, because by then I moved the pointer away.

I will try to optimize my comps and see what happens, but I’m constantly adjusting the details so I will have to update the proxies a lot, I think…

[Brendan Coots]

Hmmm I dunno, I would try a few more tests before completely tweaking your workflow in a way that will cost you hours of extra planning and work. In reality, your system should be able to handle “big layers,” and you REALLY shouldn’t be having these issues in wireframe mode. Changing your workflow to suit this problem is just postponing the inevitable pain of solving it. Here’s a few questions I have:

1. – What happens if you create a totally new project with a 720×480 comp, single solid layer and attempt to draw masks etc. If you are still getting these issues there is something very wrong with your setup, be it the computer, RAM, preferences or install of AE. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.

2. – How MANY of these big layers (2,000×2,000 or larger) do you have, not just in your main comp but any subcomps that feed into it?

3. – Are there any odd format items in your comps like HDV footage, MPEG4, H.264, MP3 audio etc? What file format are the large stills?

4. – While this isn’t usually a huge problem, are you using OpenGL acceleration?

5. Try downloading Aja’s disc speed test utility (free) and run it on all of your drives, including the FW800 drives to make sure there isn’t some screwy throughput issue. You should be getting at least 35MBps average read speed from each drive in your system.

Brendan Coots
Splitvision Digital
http://www.splitvisiondigital.com

[Nicola Scodellaro]

>> IF THE DESIGN ALLOWS. That’s a big if.

it is, indeed. I would post something here but I’m under a sort of NDA (until the videos get broadcasted, at least). I’m doing long animated movies (3 mins or so), all motion graphics, and I constantly have to check and re-check animations for minimal adjustments of curves, camera movments etc. so pre rendering is out of the question and the use of proxies can help only in certain situations – for example when a big animated layer is considered ‘done’ I can replace it with a low res still, but this is after i painfully done all the animation work.

Anyway, I discovered two things. First: for my workflow, which is continuous adjusting and previewing with the ‘0’ key even for less than a second preview, what is annoying is the lag between the ‘0’ pressing and the time when ae actually starts rendering frames, also there is a delay when I’m satisfied with the number of frames previewed and want to see it in realtime by pressing again ‘0’. For me, the smoothest work is when Multiprocessing is off: previews start quicker and I really don’t need a fast preview of 2 minutes, since in the time that ae starts all bg processes, a one processor preview of 2 seconds is already done.

Second, and more important: the damned audio is the cause of the preview lags. by simply switching off audio in the ram preview panel I get previews that start instantly and replay instantly, with no delay at all. I’m baffled. My project actually has three or four audio tracks. I remember faintly an hideous ‘mixing audio track’ message or something like that in the previews of ae 7… only this time ae doesn’t say that. Has any one any clues on how to optimize audio previewing? I often have to sync music and animations, so having audio is vital to me.
They are aiff files 48khz, 16bit and the project is set at the same freq/bit.

Any clues?

[Nicola Scodellaro]

Hi Brendan, thanks for your feedback!

>> 1. – What happens if you create a totally new project with a 720×480 comp, single solid layer and attempt to draw masks etc. If you are still getting these issues there is something very wrong with your setup, be it the computer, RAM, preferences or install of AE. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.

everything works ok. Even if I add an audio track or two (read my other answer), previews start instantly.

>> 2. – How MANY of these big layers (2,000×2,000 or larger) do you have, not just in your main comp but any subcomps that feed into it?

let’s say 10 or 12 in total, but not at the same time. I’m trying to subcomp the main project so i can say in a 40″ timeline I have thee or four big layers and I trim them for the only time they are in the frame, so I have at most two or (rare) three of them onscreen at the same time. Note that the main comps has some post effects on it, so I basically use it now and then to check the full resolution single frame, but I work mainly on the subcomps and they are always 1/2, 1/3 or less. I sometimes work on 1/16 which is trippy.

>>3. – Are there any odd format items in your comps like HDV footage, MPEG4, H.264, MP3 audio etc? What file format are the large stills?

Audio is in aiff, everything else is big psd files (~5 to 50 megs, but mainly around 20) or jpgs. Some small quicktime movies.

>>4. – While this isn’t usually a huge problem, are you using OpenGL acceleration?

turned it off after the first opengl error. Now I’m adaptive resoluted.

>> 5. Try downloading Aja’s disc speed test utility (free) and run it on all of your drives, including the FW800 drives to make sure there isn’t some screwy throughput issue. You should be getting at least 35MBps average read speed from each drive in your system.

Done: all the drives read at least at 35 mb (r/w internal: 72/70, fw800 52/53 fw400 28/36)

As I wrote in a slightly earlier post, I tracked audio preview as the main delay cause. I will look into it as soon as I don’t have any deadline approaching in 24 hours… do you have any suggestion audio-wise?

[Bob Bonniol]

I’ve most DEFINITELY had issues with mixing RAM manufacturers and types… Pull that original APple RAM and see what happens…

MODE Studios
http://www.modestudios.com
Contributing Editor, Entertainment Design Magazine
Art of the Edit Forum Leader
Live & Stage Event Forum Leader
HD Forum Leader

[Nicola Scodellaro]

>> I’ve most DEFINITELY had issues with mixing RAM manufacturers and types… Pull that original APple RAM and see what happens…

I will test as soon as I can… by the way, what kind of issues?
I’m still working on the project and I noticed that, roughly, as te comp becomes more complex – at some point – the audio causes the lag before rendering the ram preview. At initial stages, even with big subcomps and layers, things run smoothly, but after some time (and work) suddenly the delay is there.

[Nicola Scodellaro]

Thanks for the answer Dave!

>> When I work with the MOST complex audio I ever do,

My audio right now is a music track and a speaker track which is split one or two times, no other effects, looks very simple!

• Not using an audio track at the moment? TURN THE STINKIN’ THING OFF, DAVE!

That’s what I learned today!

• Limit your Work Area when doing RAM previews! It’s a big time saver! Go to the spot where you want the preview to begin, and hit the b (for Begin) key. Go to the spot where you want the preview to end and hit the n (for eNd) key. The work area is now constrained, and AE won’t try to render an entire comp’s worth of audio: just the VERY small portion you designate.

This looks interesting,

• RAM preview at one-half, one third, or one-quarter resolution. If you’re of the “I’ve got to see the best resolution all the time, no ifs, ands or buts” school, you’re just slowing yourself down. Almost always, reduced resolutions are just fine for checking motion in a RAM preview, and the preview is generated MUCH faster.

Eh, I trained myself to work at lower resolutions a long time ago, usually I’m at 1/2 or 1/4, when I’m really pissed off I even enter in ‘mondrian mode’, at 1/16 or 1/24 resolution. You don’t see anything but helps for checking the general movements.

• Turn off Motion Blending and Frame Blur when RAM Previewing. It usually just wastes time.

As a strong fan of motion blur I know exactly how much it slows down things, so it’s the first thing that I switched off.

• Need to see action in just a PORTION of the screen? There’s a button at the bottom of the comp window that lets you draw a rectangular box, and AE will both display and RAM Preview ONLY what’s inside that box. Lots faster!

That’s really useful, but the audio preview lags even with the region render on.

I still have to try the ram removal thing, but I’m almost convinced that my project is just too much for ae as it is now (can’t address more than 3gb of ram, multiprocessing is not so well built – for me previewing with mp on is really unusable), I guess I will be patient and wait cs4. sigh.

Anyway thanks for the answer, I will post feedback if I get any progress.