MAC / CS3 / DVCPRO-HD color shifting

[Del Chapple]

colorspace issue? yuv codecs have more headroom than rgb, that might explain the cropped superwhites. anyhow, i noticed a gamma shift from FCP6 ProrezHQ to AE CS3 but it was fixable by an adjustment layer and tweeking the gamma to 1.24.

del

you cant hear my inner voice scream… can you..?

[Carson Porter]

my solution from today:

• put footage in 8bit timeline

• export fat movie (no Quicktime Conversion)

• set up AE color space to 709

• render comp at Animation

• bring back to FCP and render in DVCPro timeline or 8bit timeline

May work exporting other codec variants from AE, but I’ve only done ANI so far.

anyone else have the same glorious results as me 🙂 ?

[Andre Farkatt]

Thank you all for your feedback.

Untill now, this is a no-solution situation… a real shame to adobe (and maybe apple) and AE CS3 letting it unuseful for real quality production houses.

I’ll keep trying things… if ANYTHING goes better I’ll post here.

Andre Farkatt
RTV Producoes

[Andre Farkatt]

Ron, quoting you:

have tried many permutations of the settings experimentally, etc. All resulting in no joy. I cannot get DVCPRO 720 material (as ProRes or not, etc.) to do a round trip from FCP to AE and back without the gamma/color shift making the product unusable. This is not just one person’s isolated problem.

I totally agree… and your post tells exactly what happens with me.

Let’s keep trying.

Andre Farkatt
RTV Producoes

[Andre Farkatt]

I use .xml exporting and automatic duck, so after effects uses the same original file imported via “log and transfer” from the p2 files…

and the same colorspace gamma loss occurs… even with no-recompress of the files…

Andre Farkatt
RTV Producoes

[Andre Farkatt]

I’m completely disappointed with dvcprohd with after effects from final cut pro…

I’ll test opening .mxf files in AE directly from p2 card to see if there is a solution.

Andre Farkatt
RTV Producoes

[Gary Lieberman]

Still disappointed in doing a round trip from FCP to AE and back again. Seems like it should be easy, but as all have noted, there is a gamma/color shift.

I’m hoping that someone can shed some light on this issue, so here’s what I’ve learned:

I feel like I’ve isolated the problem as to the way AE interprets a file exported with the DVCPROHD codec (601 as well) from FCP.

For instance, if I have a 601 clip on the hardrive and take it into FCP and export it with current settings (on a 601 timeline), I can then import 2 clips into AE and make a comparison. The two clips are the original 601 clip and the same clip exported from FCP. You would think they would be identical and looking at them in Quicktime Pro, they look the same. However, in AE, there is a notable gamma difference, and I can find no interpretation setting or project setting that makes them look the same.

One other discovery. If I take a clip out of FCP using an Animation codec (select ‘other’ from the export menu), although my files are huge and it takes an impractical amount of time to export, the round trip is “matchframe” perfect, even if I export the clip from AE using a 601 or DVCPROHD codec.

In summary, a problem is introduced when exporting a clip from Final Cut using a codec and importing that clip into After Effects.

Can anyone tell me if they can repeat my experience or if they can make the round trip cleanly?

One other clue. I’m using a duel quad core mac and I suspect it may be contributing to the problem, as I get level shifts inside my renders when multiprocessing is enabled.

My desired workflow is to use a DVCPROHD timeline and edit shots on Final Cut; Export clips or a series of clips from FCP to AE; Combine Photoshop elements composed in DVCPROHD resolution (pixel size) with FCP exports and render using DVCPROHD codec; import AE compositions back to FCP and place them back on the DVCPROHD timeline. Sound straight-forward?

As an example (hoping to show that you cannot just go back to the original footage and bring it into AE), say I have 3-five second clips pulled from an existing 30 minute show and I want to do a couple of 60 frame transitions. I have marked in and out on each clip and set them up with long dissolves as a rough cut for the client to review. I now want to change the dissolves to stylized AE transitions, using a logo graphic as a transition element. Ok, all I need to do is to export the two-60 frame “subclips” for each transition, bring them into AE, create the transition and export them back to Final Cut. But alas, there are level shifts, making the workflow unusable.

Use an Animation codec, you say, when exporting from FCP, that will work. Sure, but now what if I’m editing a presentation shot in green screen and have to export all the clips. It’s impractical.

Any helpful, tested (not theoretical) ideas would be greatly appreciated. To the others who have posted on this thread, I share you pain.

Gary Lieberman
Editsuite.com

[Carson Porter]

Has anyone examined the QT files that were created on export from FCP before importing to AE? I seem to notice the color shift there (in QT). My theory is that QT is the culprit, not AE.

cp

[Andre Farkatt]

I use .xml export and automatic duck to import it to AE, so, I use the original file directly on the AE timeline, just as FCP does… so, it’s not a problem with quicktime exporting… but the way AE “sees” the footage imported from P2 card

Andre Farkatt
RTV Producoes

[Kris A. wotipka]

DISCLAIMER: I do not have AE. I am working on this issue for a friend of mine. I am very familiar with the whole YUV<>RGB issue. I came across this and figure I would pass it on to this group in the hopes of helping find a solution. Please do complain if it doesn’t work.

https://kb.adobe.com/selfservice/viewContent.do?externalId=kb402801

From the website:

In order to provide consistency between platforms, After Effects CS3 adds a metadata tag to exported QuickTime movie files that specifies what gamma adjustment to use. When this tag is present, QuickTime Player uses that value instead of what it normally would use for that codec, and the resulting adjustment is consistent between Mac OS and Windows.

The value that After Effects CS3 uses for this tag is always 2.2. This value is correct for most YUV codecs such as DV and v210. However, for RGB codecs, 2.2 is not often the correct value. This means that files that use RGB codecs (such as Animation or None) are over-corrected and look washed out or too light.

kris@wotipka.com
Image maker