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Mac Book Pro or Mac Pro for editors
My production company is switching from Avid to Final Cut Pro. I have a few editing system questions (not ingesting and outputting, just questions about systems for the actual editors – we will have mac pros with either kona 3 or io HD for ingest and outputs)
1) Our editors work from home so they most likely will be using MacBook Pros – Intel Core 2 Duo 2.6GHz 4GB computers with eSata drives to work on uncompressed HD, will they be able to work more quickly in FCP if they are using the new Mac Pro 8-Core (2 Quad-Core 2.8GHz Intel Xeon) or will the mac book pro’s be able to hold their own with editing hour long documentaries, uncompressed HD
2) Will having an AJA Kona 3 (if we get the editors mac pros) or io HD (for the mac book pros) connected be a significant help to the editor’s and their process, will it speed up their work, will it allow them to edit sequences without having to render clips of different formats? Or will they be just as well off without editing with the io HD?
I’m just trying to get a better understanding of the necessity of the AJA hardware in terms of working with the editors to help them do what they have to do with projects that have been shot on many formats- DVCPro tapes, Aiptek cameras that create QTs and P2 footage.
Thanks
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10 Replies
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[Steve Roessler] “with eSata drives to work on uncompressed HD”
eSATA drives cannot do uncompressed HD unless you have at least 5 drives in the RAID. And even then, I don’t think a laptop will handle uncompressed from those drives. I have seen up to 195MB/s using the HD Pro (Caldigit), but that is PCIe and can’t do uncompressed 10-bit…8-bit yes. for 10-but uncompressed you need 220MB/s or more.
But seriously, your editors are going to be editing UNCOMPRESSED HD? Not some lower resolution, like DVCPRO HD?
[Steve Roessler] “will they be able to work more quickly in FCP if they are using the new Mac Pro 8-Core (2 Quad-Core 2.8GHz Intel Xeon) or will the mac book pro’s be able to hold their own with editing hour long documentaries, uncompressed HD”
MacBook Pros are fine for compressed HD, not for uncompressed HD. If you are planning on uncompressed HD, then you need MacPro Towers and 8 drive RAIDS running at least 300MB/s.
[Steve Roessler] “2) Will having an AJA Kona 3 (if we get the editors mac pros) or io HD (for the mac book pros) connected be a significant help to the editor’s and their process, will it speed up their work,”
Not really. All they really do is take the burden of anamporphic scaling off the processor, allowing for a few more RT effects. But realtime streams is based on drive speed and processor.
[Steve Roessler] “will it allow them to edit sequences without having to render clips of different formats?”
The version of FCP being used, and the hard drive RAIDS determine this.
Capture cards do not accelerate anything, they allow for the capture and playback of footage, and take some burden off of the processors. But they don’t really speed up anything. And if you want to work with uncompressed, you need a MacPro.
Shane
GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def -
Working from home doesn’t mean they need laptops. As Shane said, the MacPro will give them the needed throughput for UC HD. If they need to be mobile, then a MBP might help, but they won’t do UC HD with them. If you’re talking about DVCProHD, then a MBP works too. Think about the productivity of big monitors with an 8-core MP vs a 2-core MBP too.
Render, render, render with a MBP vs RT, RT, RT.
Ed[Steve Roessler] “1) Our editors work from home so they most likely will be using MacBook Pros – Intel Core 2 Duo 2.6GHz 4GB computers with eSata drives to work on uncompressed HD, will they be able to work more quickly in FCP if they are using the new Mac Pro 8-Core (2 Quad-Core 2.8GHz Intel Xeon) or will the mac book pro’s be able to hold their own with editing hour long documentaries, uncompressed HD
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[Steve Roessler] “1) Our editors work from home so they most likely will be using MacBook Pros – Intel Core 2 Duo 2.6GHz 4GB computers with eSata drives to work on uncompressed HD,”
I would not cut Uncompressed HD on a MacBook Pro. I would get them Mac Pros for that.
[Steve Roessler] “2) Will having an AJA Kona 3 (if we get the editors mac pros) or io HD (for the mac book pros) connected be a significant help to the editor’s and their process, will it speed up their work, will it allow them to edit sequences without having to render clips of different formats? Or will they be just as well off without editing with the io HD?”
Mixing different formats is all about the processor power. The Kona 3 comes in to play with HDV and DVCPro HD realtime scaling so you get more realtime effects. With FCP, getting everything into one codec BEFORE editing is the best way to go. yes it can mix and match formats, but it still works best capturing to one format.
Are your editors capturing / laying off to tape at the office or at home?
Also, will they be doing final mix and color grading at the home or the office?
Will they have proper HD monitors at home?
If they are just roughing in the projects at home, they probably don’t need anything as they could just cut along using FCP’s own Canvas just for viewing. If they are finishing the projects at home, then they will require an AJA Kona 3 board with proper HD display.
If they are going to be capturing Uncompressed HD to these systems, then you have to go with the Kona 3. The Io HD does not support Uncompressed HD capture.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.STOP STARING AND START GRADING WITH APPLE COLOR Apple Color Training DVD available now!
Read my Blog!
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It sounds like we will not be editing uncompressed, we will be working with the apple pro res codec.
Our editors will not be capturing / laying off at home, all of that will be done at the office.
Mix and color correction will be done at a post house.
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What is the best way to get everything into one codec before editing?
Ideally planning everything before shooting and only shoot in DVCPro 720p, but if they have already shot different formats and P2 footage and a bunch of lipstick cameras capturing QTs would I use compressor before importing?
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[Steve Roessler] “What is the best way to get everything into one codec before editing?”
AJA Kona 3. It can convert pretty much anything to anything including cross converting 720 to 1080 or vice versa.
[Steve Roessler] “Ideally planning everything before shooting and only shoot in DVCPro 720p, but if they have already shot different formats and P2 footage and a bunch of lipstick cameras capturing QTs would I use compressor before importing? “
Convert everything to match the P2 using the Kona 3. So if they shot 720p on the P2, then capture everything else to 720p using the Kona 3. Then you use the Kona 3 to simply output whatever is it you need for final output.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.STOP STARING AND START GRADING WITH APPLE COLOR Apple Color Training DVD available now!
Read my Blog!
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Great and the the kona three can cross convert as long as everything is the same frame rate correct? If the frame rate is different is there anything I can do?
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[Steve Roessler] “It sounds like we will not be editing uncompressed, we will be working with the apple pro res codec. “
This is a processor hog. If you go with a laptop, get the fastest laptop out there and add a 2nd monitor. If you go with a Mac Pro, you don’t necessarily have to get the absolute best and fastest one out there.
[Steve Roessler] “Our editors will not be capturing / laying off at home, all of that will be done at the office.
Mix and color correction will be done at a post house. “
This is probably the only time I’ll ever say this, but in this particular case, you do not need anything for these systems other than just the Mac. As they will not be judging image quality on these systems, nor needing to do any sort of color grading, they can just edit straight up in the FCP Canvas. Note that the FCP Canvas is always a degraded image so you do not see full quality in there and that’s why we always insist that you have an external monitor. But since they will essentially just be offlining, you could get away with nothing more than the FCP Canvas.
I would still HIGHLY recommend a proper external HD monitor though especially since focus can be hard to judge in the FCP Canvas. For simply playing out footage to a proper HD display, the Io HD is probably overkill. The Matrox MXO might be the perfect device for this situation as it’s an output device only and that’s all your editors are going to need. A great, low cost HD display is the Panasonic Pro Plasma Series. 42″ is only $999 and the 37″ is even cheaper.
For storage arrays, I would probably get a SATA array with SAS connections as those are much more robust than the standard eSATA connections if your editors are going to have to move the arrays back and forth from the office.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.STOP STARING AND START GRADING WITH APPLE COLOR Apple Color Training DVD available now!
Read my Blog!
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[Steve Roessler] “Great and the the kona three can cross convert as long as everything is the same frame rate correct? If the frame rate is different is there anything I can do? “
Yes, the Kona 3 can add pulldown to help with that. I would suggest you call the AJA Tech Support folks and they’ll walk you though how all of this is done. It’s an incredibly powerful tool. There ARE some limits to the conversions it can do so I don’t want you to think it can do all the frames to all the frame rates. Just chat with them and they’ll bring you up to speed on everything it can and cannot do.
And FYI, we also have an AJA Kona forum here on the Cow where you can certainly do a search and post questions on there about frame rate specific workflows.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.STOP STARING AND START GRADING WITH APPLE COLOR Apple Color Training DVD available now!
Read my Blog!
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I would highly recommend using the Media Manager to create lower res versions of the project for your editors to cut remotely. You can use DVCPro HD, or something similar. From your master machine, you recomposes the full-res project to the lower res, which is an exact clone of the full res version. You take the smaller, faster project to the lesser machine (i.e. a laptop), and do all the editing. Then, when finished, use the Media Manager again, to create an offline version of the project from the lesser machine, but choose the full-res codec. Then you simply open that project on your master machine, do a quick reconnect, and bingo, you have a fully edited, uncompressed version of your project.
Chris Jacek
Butler University
chrisjacek@mac.comProducer/Editor
and former Apple Employee
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