m2v frame loss on render?

[Tom J]

Hi there,

I meant to say earlier that I have tried frame blending enabled for the .tga files but with no luck. Hope that helps ya.

Thanks,
Tom

[Steve Roberts]

I think it’s the m2v codec. Maybe it’s a problem with the codec’s GOP.

Is there a 30/29.97 mismatch somewhere? (not likely, given the skip, but you never know)

Did you try rendering to a different codec, such as Photo-JPEG?

Did you try importing the jerky clip back into AE, masking half of it (or using a mode) and comparing it with the OK source footage?

Did you try rendering to Photo-JPEG, then compressing to M2V using a different app?

[Darby Edelen]

[Dave LaRonde] “As much as I like AE for its many capabilities, the application seems to fall on its face when it comes to rendering in certain codecs, MPEG2 among them.”

Although I hate to admit it, we often render out of AE to m2v for our DVD menus as they do not require optimal compression and it removes the extra step of compressing (and the large lossless files!). We never have problems with the m2v codec aside from the expected lower-quality than something compressed with Cinemacraft and the occasional user-error.

Perhaps you should try settings similar to ours:

Best Quality
6.0Mbps Constant Bit Rate
Progressive (this is set in the Output Module for main concept)
NTSC 4:3 (16:9 if you’re doing widescreen)
No Audio
No Filters

I also recommend the tests that Steve mentioned.

Darby Edelen
DVD Menu Artist
Left Coast Digital
Aptos, CA

[Roland R. kahlenberg]

The dropped frames are occurring at a consistent frequency. I’d look at Interpret Footage to see if anything out of the ordinary is happening there.

Then I’ll check Project Settings to ensure that the FPS and TV standards are set correctly. It’s most definitely a frame rate related issue.

I’m not convinced that the MPEG-2 compressor is at fault.

Cheers
Roland Kahlenberg
https://www.broadcastGEMs.com – Adobe After Effects project files
https://www.myspace.com/rorkrgbspace

[Steve Roberts]

Indeed.

It’s every 21 frames, no? I couldn’t figure out a rationale for that figure … a 30/29.97 mismatch would be a jump every 30 frames … ?

[Tom J]

Hi everyone,
Sorry for the delay… :>) I will answer everyone here…

[Steve Roberts]
“I think it’s the m2v codec. Maybe it’s a problem with the codec’s GOP”

— That is kind of where I was heading with my reference to “file size issue over the network”. But then again, that is another issue altogether I know. I tried to research GOP limitations with Main Concept, but after thinking about it, I have many projects with much larger .tga sequences that have rendered just fine.

“Did you try rendering to a different codec, such as Photo-JPEG”
— yes I have. I’ve tried Quicktime, .png, etc. originally out of Max with no luck.

“Did you try importing the jerky clip back into AE”
— I have not yet, but I will try that for sure just to be safe.

“Is there a 30/29.97 mismatch somewhere?”
— I re-rendered, looked 3 times, and everything matches. Nothing different in my workflow at all.

[Dave LaRonde]
“I’d render out of AE in a lossless codec, then use a different application to do the conversion to m2v.”

— I agree that AE fails miserably with Mpeg2. Though it would really hurt our workflow here if I were to render lossless out of AE then use another program like Premiere for m2v conversion. Plus Darby is right, the files are huge and hard to manage. However I did try this just to double check everything by importing into Premiere Pro CS2 and the Quicktime Movie resembled the same results. When I imported the .tga sequence directly into Premiere, it rendered out fine. But I need AE for my comps (effects, etc) and output templates for this custom setup.

[Darby Edelen]
— Our settings are pretty much the same that you have listed, with a couple of differences because this project is used for a custom application (non-broadcast).

Our settings are:
8.0 mbps constant (HPHL)
Progressive
4:3 square
No filters and No Audio

[RoRK and Steve]
— I thought about the settings like I mentioned earlier, but I am at a loss because all applications have the same output settings and my finals are rendered out of AE with the templates that I have created for all my renders.

— You are correct, it is about every 21-22 frames or so. Which makes me think about a FPS issue, but I can’t seem to find it.

Again the projects are nothing new. Workflow hasn’t changed, my original attempt to fix things was to remove my prefs file(s) but that didn’t help. Everything appears to be leaning towards Mainconcept.

Can you folks recommend another m2v package (encoder) that is customizable with similar settings like Mainconcept???

Thanks for hanging in here, appreciate the help…

Tom

[Roland R. kahlenberg]

Streamclip is free and I’ve heard only good things about it. Procoder will cost you and should do the trick.

But I would check your prefs to see what the FPS setting is for sequentially files and the timebase under project settings. I’ve your type of artefacts with improper settings.

BTW, are you outputting for an Alcorn Macbride system? I managed to output MPEG-2 from AE for their system and it worked without a hitch.

Good Luck!
Roland Kahlenberg
https://www.broadcastGEMs.com – Adobe After Effects project files
https://www.myspace.com/rorkrgbspace

[Tom J]

[RoRK]
“see what the FPS setting is for sequentially files and the timebase under project settings”

You know I didn’t even think of that, good idea…

I also have Procoder 2.0 before GV grabbed them. I should look into upgrading huh?

“are you outputting for an Alcorn Macbride system?”

Nope, been there, done that ;~). Love their manual though… :>)

I’m going to mess around a bit with the frame blending again with different FPS settings in both MAX and AE and see what I can come up with.

Thanks for the help,
Tom