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Luminance BUG in FCP 5.1.1 using Apple 10 bit uncmpressed NTSC codec
FCP 5.1.1 using Apple 10 bit uncmpressed NTSC codec creates
1. artificial white peak edge anomalies,
2. unsafe video using broadcast safe filter.Just checked this with some Apple reps at a seminar yesterday. I’ve been having trouble with peak whites when I shouldn’t have been.
Try this simple test:
1. Create matte color white 100
2. Place white on V1 and also on top of it on V2
3. Select V2 white clip and create a motion effect with scale at “50” to start and “80” at end of clip. (creating a zooming white box over a white background)
4. Render the effect.
5. Look at waveform monitor (internal FCP, or external). Notice the faint white dots and waveforms well above 100
6. Notice the peak transient white artifacts on the edges of the box in your NTSC broadcast monitor as the box moves. (kinda looks like a thin glass bevel effect on the box)
7. Bonus “Feature”. Put the Broadcast Safe filter on V2 now. Extremely Conservative. Put sliders all the way to the left. Should’ve crew-cut the video right? Nope, you’ll still see the edge artifacts above 100. Same thing happens to real video. Less than satisfactory workaround on real video is to take highlights down in color corrector filter not from 255 to 235, but to 215! and crank up your mids to compensate for over-compensating for the anomaly. Broadcast Safe filter on real video clips just doesn’t provide broadcast safe luminance levels. (it looks safe until it is rendered).
8. Confirm: Try 1-7 above on FCP 4.5. No problems. White boxes moving over white backgrounds look like, well, white. Broadcast Safe filters provide safe video.Anybody else confirm, fix?
OS X 10.4.7, (QT 7.1.1, 7.1.2)
Love,
JeffFinal Cut Studio 5.1, G5 2GHz Dual Processr, 2.5Gb RAM, AJA IO
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22 Replies
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[Countdown] “1. Create matte color white 100”
Rule number one in NTSC SD is NEVER create anything with 100% white. We create all our graphics and effects with no more than 90% white, though normally we’re at 85%.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Food Network’s “Good Eats”
HD Editorial for “Assignment Earth”“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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I’m sorry Walter, but I don’t see that as helpful. Are you saying this BUG isn’t a problem?
I never heard of that “rule” and certainly not number one. My Bars for SD in FCP have a 100% white chip on them. Apple (not to mention Ikegami, Sony, Tektronix, Leader, Panasonic, etc.) apparently doesn’t know this “rule” either. I haven’t found a camera roll yet that saws off the whites at 90 or 85. I like white and want to be able to do it. I can do white on anything else (Linear, Avid, FCP 4.5, etc.) and I should be able to do it in FCP 5.1.1, even Super White if I want to. Apple didn’t mention I shouldn’t be able to do 100% white on their system when I showed them this BUG. They seemed surprised their Broadcast Filter didn’t cut the whites off at 100. I think you should too.Love,
JeffFinal Cut Studio 5.1, G5 2GHz Dual Processr, 2.5Gb RAM, AJA IO
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[Countdown] “I’m sorry Walter, but I don’t see that as helpful. Are you saying this BUG isn’t a problem?
I never heard of that “rule” and certainly not number one.”There’s been something called “TV White” that’s been around as long as I’ve been editing. TV White is not 100% white. It’s about 85% white which appears to be true white on an NTSC TV. As a rule, when editing for NTSC SD, you don’t want to create 100% white. The White in the bars is for measurement and setup purposes, not for broadcast.
[Countdown] “They seemed surprised their Broadcast Filter didn’t cut the whites off at 100. I think you should too.”
Broadcast Safe in the Very Conservative mode cuts off the whites nicely at 100%
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Food Network’s “Good Eats”
HD Editorial for “Assignment Earth”“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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I can confirm what Walter is saying. Even though the BARS have 100% white, any titles and graphics you make for TV should never be 100%. We have always used 90% as the rule. 85% isn’t a bad place to go either, to be very conservative.
Having worked in the broadcast business for over 10 years (not that long once I think about it) this has always been a Golden Rule of Broadcast.
Shane
Littlefrog Post
http://www.lfhd.net -
[Shane Ross] “Having worked in the broadcast business for over 10 years (not that long once I think about it) this has always been a Golden Rule of Broadcast.”
Your photo looks way too young to be 10 years in the biz! Course I can’t believe I’m going 16 years and counting.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Food Network’s “Good Eats”
HD Editorial for “Assignment Earth”“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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In fact, I’m surprised that Boris 3D titler defaults to 100% white. Many titling apps, TitleMotion for example, default to 85 or 90% in order to keep neophites from sending out 100% white titles by mistake.
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[Shane Ross] “I can confirm what Walter is saying. Even though the BARS have 100% white, any titles and graphics you make for TV should never be 100%. We have always used 90% as the rule. 85% isn’t a bad place to go either, to be very conservative.”
Just to go back and test this, I did the test described in the first post, but I did my normal color correction first before the broadcast safe filter. That is, I applied the 3Way Color Corrector to both video tracks, brought the highlight controls down to 235, applied the Broadcast Safe Filter, Rendered, and everything is right where it should be.
The Broadcast Safe Filter works best in tandem with the Color Correctors. Get your levels balanced correctly with the CC, then use Broadcast Safe to knock off any leftover peaks.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Food Network’s “Good Eats”
HD Editorial for “Assignment Earth”“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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I agree with you guys for graphics, but shouldn’t the filter be doing it’s job and clipping the whites. What about video that has white’s that peak in it. I usually color correct first and try to get the image looking good before applying the broadcast safe filter. But this still sounds like a bug…
Tony
Rev13Films -
ok ok, we are loosing the point here, and though I agree with walter, it’s irrelevant, the point is to test a glitch, god for bid this NTSC clip isn’t going to broadcast the point is to check this bug
and I just checked on 5.0.4 and there’s no definition between the two layers, it’s 5.1 thing I thhink
-Aaron
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Adding color corrector filters is not the test.
I’m not interested in arguing about whether broadcasters broadcast white video. I have 25+ years in broadcasting including three of the major networks and they shoot white, edit white and broadcast white–not TV white (78 IRE), but white!
If you run the test and don’t get the results I’ve posted about, I’d like to know. We’ve tried a G5 laptop, three G5 desktops, some with BMD and others with AJA and some with no capture cards. The units were owned by Apple as well as production companies and certified Apple consultants. ALL thought this shouldn’t happen. NONE said you have to use the 3-way color corrector to make the Broadcast Safe filter work.
Please post your rantings about Rules on White on another post. I’d like to stay focused on the bug, please.
Love,
JeffFinal Cut Studio 5.1, G5 2GHz Dual Processr, 2.5Gb RAM, AJA IO
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