Looking for three point kit.

[Dan Brockett]

Hi Ty:

Three point lighting is more of a concept than a lighting kit configuration. What are you planning on shooting? Lighting a roundtable narrative scene is very different than lighting a single talking head interview.

It would be helpful to know what you are attempting to shoot and light, your maximum budget, do you work alone or with a crew. If by yourself, do you have any lighting experience? If with a crew, do you work with professional grips and gaffers? Do you need to fly with this gear? There are so many ways to go from Home Depot worklights to a full 3 ton grip and lighting truck and everything in-between. Fluorescent, LED, HMI, Tungsten, etc., etc.

Do you own any grip gear? Grip equipment to make all of this lighting workable and controllable is at least as important as the lighting itself.

Not trying to sound vague but you need to provide a LOT more specific information in order for us to make any intelligent recommendations.

Best,

Dan

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[Ty Ford]

Hi Dan,

I’ll be working alone at first. I have a Canon XL2. My plans are uncertain but one shots and two shots are probably a good place to start.

I have a photographic background and have been watching and gripping for shooters on corporate industrial, documentary and commercial shoots.

I bought my Sachtler with the hard case just in case I need to fly with it. In my travels with other shooters, they carry the camera as carry-on. That;’s what I would do with the XL2.

I own not enough grip gear but understand its importance. This is a slippery slope, I realize. I think a softbox, key and rim light would be a good start; perhaps with a bounce fill. That’s the kind of gear the people I’m working with have now with some extra practicals, gels and dimmers.

I may not need everything at once. I’d like to stay below $1500 for the first move.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Ty Ford’s “Audio Bootcamp Field Guide” was written for video people who want better audio. Find out more at https://home.comcast.net/~tyreeford/AudioBootcamp.html
or https://www.tyford.com

[Dan Brockett]

Hi Ty:

Good, so you at least have a clue about lighting and gripology.

I am sure you will get a million different suggestions on what lights/kit to buy but here is my recommendation. I will substantiate the rational behind each instrument.

1. Soft Key
Buy a Chimera kit as described here. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=257304&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation It’s a 500 watt mogul base lamp and includes a small Chimera, 40 degree egg crate, stand, cases, bulb, the wole works. Just add water, makes it’s own sauce.

The reason you want this is because for $539.00, it is a the best, most efficient soft key available that is of professional grade material. You can and will use and own this setup for years, if not decades, it will grow with you as your needs expand. For single talking heads, cannot be beat. If you fly, it is also a very small piece of kit that does a lot. I own four small Chimeras and they are one of my most valued pieces of gear.

2. Add a hairlight/rim light.
Buy a Lowel I-Light. This is a small, $109.00 light that includes barndoors and can be powered by a variety of different small output bulbs, 100, 150 and 250 watt. It’s cheap and for a hairlight/rimlight, you don’t have to have a fresnel. Add a small Impact or Manfrotto stand for $80.00 and you have your rim light and stand for under $200.00.

3. Add a BG light.
Buy an Arri 300 watt fresnel or if you want to save some money, an Altman. With barndoors and a set of scrims, will set you back about $320.00, figure $400.00 with a stand.

So now you have a soft key source, a hair/rim light and a BG light. You have spent about $1,130.00 of your $1,500.00 budget. Spend another $50.00 on a 36″ white and gold Flexfill. Great as a fill source when used opposite your Chimera, can also be used outdoors and that Gold side is nice for giving pale subjects a nice tan. Now you have spent $1,180.00. How about another $50.00 for a plastic Contico box from Home Depot to carry your three lights, stands, some Duvetyne, some stingers. Now you are at about $1,250.00. Find a used C-Stand with 40″ grip arms, should be able to locate for about $80.00 ea. Now you are at $1,410.00. Spend the rest on some Cinefoil, stingers, gels, C-47s and a few scissor clips and grip clips and you are in business for right around $1,500.00.

You have assembled a basic lighting kit for $1,500.00 that is all professional quality gear that you will never outgrow, you can just add to it as your lighting needs expand. You will have a kit that functionally blows away any stupid Lowel or Britek kit or anything you assemble from Home Depot worklights.

This is very close to what I use as my solo travel interview kit except that I don’t have the mogul base Chimera lamp, I use one of my old Lowel V-Lights in my small Chimera, which is also a 500 watt open faced light like the mogul light. And I used an Arri 150 fresnel instead of the Lowel i-Light as a hairlight but that’s just because I already owned a couple of Arri 150s from a kit, the i-Light works just as well for this purpose and costs almost 1/3 as much as the Arri.

Enjoy and let me know what you think!

Dan

Providing value added material to all of your favorite DVDs

[Leo Ticheli]

You might consider another option for your key light; a 500W source behind a Chimera is pretty wimpy, and is tungsten only. A poor choice for shooting in rooms with daylight windows. Your color pallet will be mixed unless you gel the windows, a labor and time-consuming process.

I would recommend a Kino Flo Diva 400; it’s nice and soft with a bit of very light diffusion and can be tubed for either tungsten or daylight. We very rarely go with tungsten tubes, by the way, so you can buy those only if really needed.

You can pick up a Diva 400 for under $800.00.

Another choice, although a good bit heavier and more expensive, is the Mole Richardson Biax 8; it’s around $1100.00, but is powerful enough to shoot with daylight windows in the shot without unacceptable blowout. It’s my favorite small key light for location shooting.

Except for shooting in the studio and some night interiors, you should find daylight-balanced fixtures far more practical. Since HMI’s are terribly expensive, fluorescent fixtures are a great choice.

In addition to the ability to do either tungsten or daylight, the fluorescent lights burn cool and draw very little power.

You might rent first and give your options a try.

Good shooting!

Leo

[Dan Brockett]

Hi Leo:

Good points you made. Just as an addition, the Chimera kit that I recommend is also available as a 750 watt and 1,000 watt bulb setup for a few bucks more. I find the 500 watts with a small Chimera is more than adequate for most interior situations where I can control ambient lighting. I agree that if you must deal with ambient daylight, either the 1K tungsten or the daylight balanced lights are a better bet. But with the additional cost for the Kinos or Moles, we then crowd out Ty’s budget for the rest of the needed gear.

I have rented the Divas many times and recently built two of my own homemade Diva 200s. After testing them, I have a few observations. The quality of light from a Diva is quite a bit harsher than a small Chimera with an eggcrate. The Kino has less wrap and much shorter falloff than with a tungsten instrument. True the Divas can accept the KF29 and KF55 biax lamps but honestly, I am discovering that the KF29 lamps look pretty bad, with either green, pink or magenta spikes. The daylight KF55 lamps are better, I recommend NOT using the 55 watt biax lamps in the KF2900 Kino flavor at least. I would still like to test some other brands to determine if this is a Kino issue or a 55 watt Biax issue.

The other drawback is that if you are using a Diva with the KF55 daylight lamps, what is Ty going to use as a hairlight and BG light if his key source is daylight balanced? I guess he could go very orange but that might not suit the project. IMHO, if you go daylight whether with HMIs or fluoros, you need a full daylight kit of at least two if not three or four daylight instruments. As you know, gelling a tungsten instrument with full CTB or dichroics cuts the output, usually to about 50%. I am also skeptical about the ability of accurately color balancing daylight Kinos with CTB or dichroic treated tungstens.

While Kinos and Mole fluoros are nice lights, I think for Ty’s limited budget, they are a door to a more expensive solution than his budget supports. The full Diva 400 kit is close to $1,100.00 to $1,200.00 isn’t it? Doesn’t leave him much to buy other lights or gripology.

All the best,

Dan

[Leo Ticheli]

Of course we all have our favorite ways of working, but I think the negatives of tungsten quartz lights are considerable.

The color temperature problem is really unsolvable by any practical means. Gelling the windows is far too time-consuming and very difficult to do transparently enough so that it does not show. Gelling the lamp with full blue knocks the output down to a meager level even with a 1000W lamp. There is no way include a day-lit window in the shot without profound blowout. If this is your artistic preference, fine; if not, it’s not acceptable.

I think most of us have to shoot people in offices with large exposures of windows and the only viable options are HMI or beefy fluorescent fixtures.

With the hot quartz fixtures, you are forced to make compromises about where you shoot and the time of day, unless you use a really big lamp, such as a 5K. Then, of course, you’re faced with power problems; you haven’t lived on the edge until you’re forced to explain how you knocked out a floor of computers. Undoubtedly a punchy daylight-balanced fixture is far more flexible.

As for the issue of the softness of the light, the softness of the light is directly proportional to the relative size of the aperture of the light to the subject. A diffusion of the same size as a Chimera in front of a Kino Flo 400 will produce the same degree of softness. An egg-crate has no effect on softness, just control of spill.

As we all know, fluorescent fixtures have color temperature characteristics just as do all lamps; they are widely used world-wide by accomplished cinematographers. I have no problems with either my Mole Richardson or Kino Flo fixtures.

At the end, the perfect kit contains the lighting fixtures and grip equipment necessary to achieve the results desired at a cost the cinematographer & client can afford. For me, look comes first, quickly followed by speed and flexibility. When I have a larger area for the key, I’ll use an HMI behind a huge Chimera; for tighter locations, the larger fluorescent fixtures are wonderful. They have the punch, low-power draw, and they are talent-friendly – nice and cool burning.

If something else works better for you, you’re wise to use it.

Good shooting!

Leo

[Ty Ford]

OK,

How about one of these 4-lighters (https://www.lowel.com/caselite/caselite_b.html#info) with bounce fill and several small spots for hair and background.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Ty Ford’s “Audio Bootcamp Field Guide” was written for video people who want better audio. Find out more at https://home.comcast.net/~tyreeford/AudioBootcamp.html
or https://www.tyford.com

[Leo Ticheli]

I’ve not used Lowel gear for a long time, but my previous experience with them was that their equipment was not as robust as I would like. It seemed aimed at those just entering the business, with fairly attractive prices and some innovative equipment.

I tend to stick to the category leaders, with more rugged equipment that will last for a very long time. For that reason, I would go with the likes of Mole Richardson or Kino Flo for fixtures and Mathews or similar for stands and grip.

On the other hand, the Lowel kit seems like a well thought out solution, with the built-in storage.

Either solution should give you good results with your key lighting.

Good shooting!

Leo

[Dan Brockett]

Hi Leo and Ty:

“The color temperature problem is really unsolvable by any practical means. Gelling the windows is far too time-consuming and very difficult to do transparently enough so that it does not show. Gelling the lamp with full blue knocks the output down to a meager level even with a 1000W lamp. There is no way include a day-lit window in the shot without profound blowout. If this is your artistic preference, fine; if not, it’s not acceptable.

I think most of us have to shoot people in offices with large exposures of windows and the only viable options are HMI or beefy fluorescent fixtures.”

I do sometimes shoot in these office situations but I usually throw a 12′ wide piece of Duvetyne over the window. Doesn’t change overall color temp but makes it so that you can actually get some punch out of a CTB covered 1k in close-up shots. It’s easy, I rarely try to compete with daylight streaming through windows unless I have HMIs to play with.

“A diffusion of the same size as a Chimera in front of a Kino Flo 400 will produce the same degree of softness.”

Sure, the same degree of softness but definitely not the same throw or wrap with a Diva with diffusion on it. I find that when I put diffusion on the fronts of Divas, they lose so much throw that they become almost useless past a couple of feet away. Pair this with competing with ambient daylight levels and IMHO, Kinos get just as wimpy, if not more on the output as a tungsten with CTB.

Case in point, I shot an interview with pop artist Ed Ruscha a few weeks ago in his Venice studio. The room featured two large skylights. The BG elements we ended up including in the frame happened to put Ruscha directly underneath one of these skylights. I keyed his interview with a small Chimera with an Arri 1k open face punched through full CTB. With the Chimera placed about 3 feet to Ruscha’s face, I was able to obtain a perfect key source that blended nicely with the daylight.

Nothing wrong with Kinos, I like mine. But I do not like the color renditions of the KF 29 Kino lamps and I do not think that they match tungsten instruments very well. The Kinos are expensive for what they are, I am much more satisfied with my homemade Diva 200s than with the real Divas I have rented. If Ty can afford more than his stated $1,500.00 budget, the Kinos or Moles are great but for sticking to his budget, I feel that they are not the best recommendation.

Best,

Dan

[Leo Ticheli]

Obviously, throwing a black cloth over a window won’t work when the window is in the shot! I very much like to motivate my light and windows look good. At least they do to me.

My understanding of light must be different from yours. In my experience, equal sized fixture apertures of equal intensity have identical fall-off, following the law of squares. At least in my little Newtonian world, the laws of physics don’t bend more than the vagaries of imprecise measurement allow.

I do like the easier to achieve spill control of a closed softbox; the Mole Richardson Biax 8 is the same, with no place for light to leak from open sides, so they are equal in spill control.

If you are not getting enough level, you are either using too dense diffusion or starting with too weak a source. A diffused two-tube fluorescent is just too weak for keying unless the shot is so tight it can be placed very close to the subject.

I prefer to not suffer the limitations of 3200