Looking for my next camcorders

[John Sharaf]

Tom,

This is a very common problem in the educational production community. I bid a sale just today to a school in New Orleans with the same budget request. I recommended EX3 for them. Another, and perhaps better choice for you might be the PDW-F330. It is a full sized, very robust camera and the XDCAM optical disc media is inexpensive ($20) and archival, so no downloading and copying from expensive memory chips. Also, inexpensive ($2500) disc readers called PDW-U1, instead of VTR’s connect to you NLE for faster than real time import.

The company I work with for sales offers these cameras in bstock with a YH18x6.7KRS lens for $10500.

If you’re interested feel free to contact me off list:

john at sharaf dot net

JS

[Rick Wise]

JVC Gy-HD500U, https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/497873-REG/JVC_GYHD250U_GY_HD250U_Professional_HDV_Camcorder.html. You might also consider getting over your anti “prosumer” approach and consider either the Sony EX1 or EX3, both 3 x 1/2″ chips. Either will need some sort of shoulder support as they are not ergonomically designed. Good solutions for that problem start at around $65.

Rick Wise
director of photography
and custom lighting design
Oakland, CA
https://www.RickWiseDP.com
https://www.recessionvideo.net
https://www.linkedin.com/in/rwise
email: Rick@RickWiseDP.com

[Tom Galli]

I’m not anti-prosumer, really. Personally, I’m a fan of prosumer cameras, their size in particular.

However, if I’m training students to compete in a professional environment, I absolutely insist on having professional tools with which to train them. Someone schooled on a pro camera can puzzle their way through a prosumer variant. It doesn’t work the other way, though.

I suppose I really don’t need HD from that perspective, but spending a hundred grand on SD technology in this day and age seems… wrong.

The difference between theory and reality is that, in theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.

[John Fishback]

The Panasonic HPX300 at B&H Photo is $7700. You need to add a P2 card or 2. Current 16GB is $800, but the just introduced E models are much less expensive (approx $420 for a 16GB card) and shipping next month. The DVCPro HD codec is an intra-frame codec. This means the camera records discrete frames rather than occasional keyframes in groups of pictures as with the inter-frame codec Sony prefers. This makes a huge difference when editing.

John

MacPro 8-core 2.8GHz 8 GB RAM OS 10.5.5 QT7.5.5 Kona 3 Dual Cinema 23 ATI Radeon HD 3870
ATTO ExpressSAS R380 RAID Adapter, PDE Enclosure with 8-drive 6TB RAID 5
24″ TV-Logic Monitor
Final Cut Studio 2 (up to date)

Pro Tools HD w SYNC IO, Yamaha DM1000, Millennia Media HV-3C, Neumann U87, Schoeps Mk41 mics, Genelec Monitors, PrimaLT ISDN

[Mike Johnson]

If you’re a fan of the JVC DV500, then you’ll like the JVC HM700. Its brand new from JVC at runs $7K from B&H for the body, 17x lens, and Anton Bauer Gold Mount. There is also an option for a wider 14x lens.

The HM700 will shoot both SD and HD, with a choice of 720 or 1080 in HD. A variety of frame rates are available in both interlaced and progressive. It records to affordable SD cards ($90 for 16GB – which holds 55min at 1920×1080 35Mbps). The clips are QT .mov format using the XDCAM EX codec and drop right into FCP without any transcoding or rendering.

Whatever battery system you are using on the DV500s would easily be transferred to the HM700. As well as most other accessories. So, your looking at $7K per unit plus a handful of SD cards.

Here’s a couple of links:
https://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/features.jsp?model_id=MDL101851&feature_id=01#
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/606888-REG/JVC_GY_HM700L17_GY_HM700L17_ProHD_Solid_State_Camcorder.html
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/606881-REG/JVC_GY_HM700U_GY_HM700U_ProHD_Solid_State_Camcorder.html

Mike Johnson

Final Cut Pro Editor

Drury Outdoors

http://www.druryoutdoors.com

[Tom Galli]

Wow… that HM700 looks promising! I’d (naturally) prefer a full 50 Mbps data stream and true 4:2:2 sampling, but that seems unlikely in my budget range.

I’m concerned about the $700 batteries, though. I’ve got 6 Anton-Bauer Q2 chargers and many ProFormer 3 Logic Series batteries. The batts are dying and in need of replacement anyway, but it wouldn’t hurt my feelings to be sure that I could buy batteries that are:
A> compatible with by chargers,
B> compatible with the new cameras,
C> under $200 each.

I know, it’s old school technology now. But, really, $700 per battery? And $2,000 per charger? Do I really need that level of technology in my power supply?

The difference between theory and reality is that, in theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.

[John Reynolds]

It was very interesting reading this thread as I too am looking for my next ENG Video camera. All the answers and comments are very helpful and I thank all who replied. However…..I’m always concerned about which video camera is actually worth it in terms of performance and ability. There is always some sort of drawback to these cameras. One thing I’m noticing is that on the video card capture features I always see this “The clips are QT.mov format using the XDCAM EX codec and drop right into FCP without any transcoding or rendering”. What gives with this? Why is it like this? I use both PC and MAC and would like to be able to not have to go the extra step in transcoding for Premiere Pro on a PC. Why are they making cameras that do this. More people use PC than a MAC.

What Cameras have the best rating and worth there weight and price?

Thanks

[John Fishback]

While we don’t own an HPX300, we do have an HPX500. The workflow is simple and fast with FCP: P2 mxf injested as DVCPro HD. I’m not familiar with Premiere, but if it can handle mxf it should be fine. Avid is fine with mxf. All these cameras have their plusses and minuses. You need to decide what your business requires and your customers, too. When I was deciding which camera system to buy two years ago I made a grid with features and capabilities I needed and which cameras met them. Then I made my choice.

John

MacPro 8-core 2.8GHz 8 GB RAM OS 10.5.5 QT7.5.5 Kona 3 Dual Cinema 23 ATI Radeon HD 3870
ATTO ExpressSAS R380 RAID Adapter, PDE Enclosure with 8-drive 6TB RAID 5
24″ TV-Logic Monitor
Final Cut Studio 2 (up to date)

Pro Tools HD w SYNC IO, Yamaha DM1000, Millennia Media HV-3C, Neumann U87, Schoeps Mk41 mics, Genelec Monitors, PrimaLT ISDN

[Tom Galli]

Yeah, the decision-making is certainly simplified by knowing your needs. And mine are probably different than most folks. For me, performance and workflow are actually secondary concerns. My major interests are in having a camera that teaches generalizable skills and runs on affordable media.

I keep a stable of 8 pro cameras for an average of 35 students per semester. Each student does multiple projects, all with shared deadlines. So, effectively, I have to have a minimum of 35 pieces of media. More practically, I need 70. Not a problem with $5 mini-DV tapes. Insurmountable problem with $700 P2 cards.

Of course reliability is a concern. If I buy anything besides Sony, I have no local support. Repairs mean boxing it up and shipping it across an ocean.

It will have full manual controls. I am a firm believer that you best learn the techniques and theories by actively practicing them. Transitioning to a camera that does the work for you is easy. Walking into a TV station for a job interview when you’ve only handled prosumer gear isn’t.

I’m glad that I started this thread! I’ve become aware of cameras that are contenders but I had previously overlooked. Both the Sony XDCam and the JVC cameras have potential. And, who knows, there might be something new on the market by the time I do make my purchase.

Please keep the suggestions coming!

The difference between theory and reality is that, in theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.

[John Sharaf]

Tom,

The biggest selling point to the PDW-F330/335/350/355 line is the XDCAM disc media itself; it costs $20 for 45 minutes of HD master, can be submerged in water, dried out and played as if nothing happened, is said to be able to last for 50 years and can be erased and reused a thousand times.

The XDCAM recordings (both SD and HD) are file based so they transfers into NLE’s at faster than real time from either the camera or an inexpensive drive (PDW-U1 at under $3K) and the camera itself has a shoulder mount form factor that is the same as is used by many local and national news operations, and kind of modeled after the original Betacam.

The 335 and 355 versions differ only in that they can record on double sided discs (doubling the recording time), which incidentally cost more than twice is much so makes little sense. There are still new b-stock (slightly used but with new warranty from Sony) 330 and 350’s available at considerable savings (within your budget), so I think these are just what you’re looking for. These cameras will definitely stand up to the rigors of use in education, more so than any of the others mentioned. Again, feel free to contact me off list to talk business.

Regards,

JS