Live Band Videos – General Thoughts and Ideas With Production

[Todd Terry]

Hi Ritchie…

Well, if you are just looking for “calling cards”-type videos to get gigs for the band, there’s nothing wrong with doing iPhone and GoPro videos, that’s perfectly fine, and I know you are not trying to produce music videos that wind up on MTV (if MTV still existed as such anymore)… so there’s a whole different quality and production value goal there. I’m sure you are just looking for something easy that will give decent videos to book jobs and to share on social media. The phone/GoPro combo is fine for that, and it looks like you are able to do some basic multi-camera editing and that’s a good thing.

Just a couple of observations.

Kill all the crazy edit effects. They don’t add anything and just have that “Well we’ve got to put some effect in here, lets use this one” look. They aren’t helping. I think I only noticed that on one video (maybe the newest one?… I just kinda scanned through them), but it was in there a LOT.

The lighting is killing you… with all the quick strobing and fast pulsing red and blue and purple and such lighting that is driving your cameras (and the viewer) nuts. I’m sure it looks good live in person and is fun to dance to and all that, but maybe for an occasional song where are trying to record video you could have your lighting person tone that down… either waaaaaay slow the transitions so the cameras can keep up, or even better just leave the lighting plot alone for the duration of the song…preferably with something not so harshly colored. Hey you could even say to the audience “We’re trying to get this next song on camera, so the lights are gonna be a bit boring… just enjoy the music.”

The last thing I’ll mention is sound…. I sure don’t mean to be harsh, and sorry to say it man, but the sound is terrible. You’re a band, you’ve GOTTA sound good no matter what you look like. I’m not sure how you are capturing sound (is it just through the phone’s mic?… that’s what it sounds like), but there are many better ways to do that. I’m a director and DP, not a sound guy, so I’m not going to be a great source of advice there. Maybe others in here will be, or head over to the Audio Professionals forum where I’m sure they will have some great tips.

Rock on….

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com

[Mark Suszko]

Todd had a lot of useful things to say on that. His most important one may be the audio comment. It’s trivial to add a digital audio recorder to your arsenal, and I’d suggest you get two: one to record a mix out of your mixer, the other, somewhere on the stage, I’d suggest clamped to the lead singer’s mic stand. This gets you a “dry” board mix and a “wet” or “live” sound, that includes the drummer and crowd/ acoustics, and you can balance these in post to keep the energy of the live venue, but with the clarity of the board mix. Sounds like it’s supposed to, or at least, like how you rehearsed it:-)

The next thing I’d suggest is, if you’re not using an app like Filmic Pro to control the phone’s camera, you need to.

And yes, either get a gimbal for the phone cam, or, something I’ve done is put an adapter on a heavy floor mic stand (no boom) to hold the cameraphone or gopro, instead of a mic; this is like a portable monopod that can stand free, yet move quickly, and if you walk with it, the pendulum effect of the heavy base keeps it remarkably stable… Its nice in that it is fast and easy to move and position and takes up nearly zero floor space.

When I need a gopro type camera to run a long time, over 2 hours, I mount it high up on a light stand and I put in the biggest memory card I can find, and add one of those ridiculously long phone charge cords they sell at gas stations, connected to a USB power cube with extension cord, or if cords would be a problem, to an external battery pack, Start it and forget it.

Regarding your gopros, (or gopro knock-offs, which I love); more of these is always better – you can get a 4K version of these in the 60-dollar price range, and it’s handy because you can punch-in to the wide shot to make fake zooms, pans, and close-ups that seamlessly match, when your final output is only 720 HD. I use this technique on practically all my band shoots because I don’t have trustworthy live bodies to operate my cameras when we’re performing and I’m on stage. My budget doesn’t allow for HeroBlack models, but I love my 60-dollar-ish 4K from iconntechs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01H2TPL32/ref=sspa_dk_detail_0?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B01H2TPL32. People also seem to like the Yi brand.

More on the go-pros: perhaps invest in a scissor clip mount, normally used for hanging video lights from the tracks of dropped ceilings – and adapt it to mount a go pro to that for a high, unobstructed angle from head-on or 45 degrees off to left and/or right: this becomes a stable, safe wide shot/ cutaway, and shows people dancing in front of the stage. Or try a clamp to add the GoPro to a light bar or other lighting fixture. Again, it’s out of the way, but offers a fun angle. A gopro on a short mic stand off the drummer’s shoulder or next to his ride cymbal is a nice cut-away – drummers don’t always get enough camera love, but cutting to their visual moves always looks good in an edit. In high-noise environments, like close to a drummer, their mics can be a little overwhelmed, so I run a layer of tape over the mic hole as an attenuator.

I have very good luck at my usual venue with some hard-to-source ball cap/strap clamp skeleton frames for my GoPros (came with the Iconntechs cameras, wish I could find more) that let me clamp them unobtrusively to the edges of the lamp shades in our pizza joint. These give almost drone-like coverage. I’ll try to put up a pic of that mount later. My GoPros never go into waterproof cases, only these open-air “skeletons”, which also have standard photo screw threads top and bottom for tripod attachment. In high-noise environments, their mics can be a little overwhelmed, so I run a layer of tape over the mic hole as an attenuator.

A strong magnet and a flexible mount may also work in some venues to go on a door sill or support beam. Such things are cheap to put together but give awesome angles.

Finally, I have a little constructive criticism on the way the vids are cut. I know up-front that your choices of shots up to now are limited by what’s available. But going forward, with more possible angles, I’d want to see a bit more conventional cutting between a wide establisher, some close-ups, and some matching action, as well as cut-aways in appropriate places. If you get the gimbal stabilizer, a slow walk across the room from left to right and back, pointed at the center stage, would make a nice master or cut-away. You can’t deny the energy of a single shot of a great performance from close-in, but for me, cutting adds some “punctuation” to the verses and chorus that enhance the experience and keep the eye interested as well as the ear.

One Idea I have for you, is to ask a bunch of friends and family to come to a gig, and have *all* of them use they phones or camcorders at the same time, from every possible position, then multicam-cut them in post for a creative look.

[Mark Suszko]

This is not my band, it was a recent shot of us goofing around in our monthly club meeting, saying “goodbye” to a recently-passed member; all the camera “moves” are faked from fixed-position 2K or 4k GoPro knock-offs, hanging from the lamps, sitting on the table, or perched atop the pac man game cabinet in the background… the camera shake was added in post for giggles. It’s not *great* video, but it shows how more available angles can make any performance look better…

https://youtu.be/iaavUnFmOzQ

[Ritchie Mellor]

Thank you b

[Ritchie Mellor]

Thank you Todd for taking the time to not just reply, but to give me such a detailed response.

So, the crazy effects you are on about was the “Human” video only, and I wanted to do something a bit different to the rest of the videos we post. I loved the camera angle, however the crowd in the bar weren’t really cooking that night, so flipping between angles to the cam looking out would have kind of killed the mood. It’s certainly not something I would do on other videos, and I transition it out to the normal video when it kicks into the pre-chorus / chorus. It probably is overdone and I’m suffering from the noob mistake of “oooh, that looks cool” and slapping it on with all the care and delicacy of a wrecking ball. The guys in the band love it because it is something different, but then again they are love an automated iMovie video, so that kind of gives you an idea of why I am trying to do things a bit better ????????

The lighting is something that is really hard to deal with, and I have improved it on the last couple of vids by using the exposure control on the GoPro to kill “some” of the more blown out elements, and I do set them so they aren’t constantly changing settings. What is difficult with the lighting is that we are being paid to play, so the shooting has to be subtle and not really get in the way (however maybe I am being to sensible here, I am sure people wouldn’t mind that much!). What I will say though is that we want to make it look good for the audience primarily, and we do not want to say that we are recording because we will just get drunken muppets trying to find them and shove their faces in front. We are in Britain and shove a camera in the vicinity of someone with a belly full of beer and they are off on one! Many of the videos I have had to blur people dancing in front of the camera (when it was just shot on the iPhone) or use the 4k and crop in trick to try and not have the shot lost.

I agree completely with the sound, and it is what has disappointed me most about the videos. The sound from the iPhone is much better than from the GoPros which is far too bass heavy (in part from their locations which are not exactly conducive to getting the full frequency range!), but I appreciate that even then its not wonderful. I have tried playing with the EQ but I know its not going to cut the mustard. I think the fact that they are clearly shot how they are shot does allow a bit of “forgiveness” from the viewer because they know it is a phone recording, but if I up the video production quality then I know I have to do more for the audio. A lot more in fact! The Zoom H4n is on order!

What I will say is that this element has up to know been more of a case of seeing if we could get something decent without impacting on what we are doing. Generally there is not someone else there to help us, it is just the three of us, and if I do have my girlfriend along and she can get some shots on my iPhone, well I do have to correct the video position somewhat by recording in 4k and zooming / reframing due to the “vodka coefficient”! And out of all of us, it is only me that can do anything with the vids, so it has been a proof the other boys in the band that doing this is worthwhile. But the band have seen the benefit of the vids and as such are more understanding of the need to do things a bit different to get the recordings looking well.

I hope that this doesn’t sound like I am making excuses or not listening to your points, I guess I am just trying explain some of the constraints that we currently face, and how we are trying to make the best of the situation. I would love to have others there that I could trust to assist in the filming!

Kind regards

Ritchie

[Ritchie Mellor]

Hi Mark, as with Todd, thank you for taking the time to give such a lengthy and detailed response to my post, it really is appreciated!

I have to say I agree completely on the sound, it is killing me that we are having to deal with the quality we are when we are using the gear we have going through the very expensive PA! I have had a look an a Zoom H4n is on order. That way I can run out from the desk and do the ambient in one hit, and hopefully this will correct this element of it. I was hopefully that the audio I could get would be more than good enough for what I wanted to achieve, and with the iPhone it is definitely better than the GoPros, but I know its not where it needs to be really. I was tempted to spill a drink on the desk so we have to buy a new one that multitrack recording, but think the Zoom is probably a better solution ????

I have read good things about the Filmic Pro app, and will get it, however its limited as to when that will be there and as its the girlfriend using it (see previous vodka statement!) its not going to be a key element in the production, only something that add an additional angle and element to the mix.

One reason I got the GoPro Blacks and not the cheaper 4k knock offs was the fact they don’t shoot at 24fps, and I wanted to get the vids shot at this. I had read bad things about interpretting footage from 30 to 24 and wasn’t sure if it would give good results. Obviously I could get 4 knock offs for the price of 1 GP Hero 7 Black, so do you think it is worth it and just deal with the frame conversion?

I have bought a load of cheap accessories to mount them, as well as a few of the lightweight Gorillapods and they work well, but being limited to 2 cameras at the moment, I am putting one behind to capture the venue and crowd and one facing us to capture the band like in this vid (the second camera is the iphone and girlfriend on this one). I have two gigs I have recorded that I need to do videos for that will show the angles, one of which I moved the 2nd camera around between sets. I am still trying to find out what works!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1WPuvKXQrs

One thing that concerns me with angles and what you have said is basically theft or damage. Obviously they are not cheap (especially when adding in mounts, memory cards etc…) and having them in close proximity to people that are drunk is always a worry, or worse that they get stolen, so I do have to be careful in terms of where they are located. And as I said to my reply to Todd, in Britain if you have a camera up, then its like an invite for people to start acting the fool directly in front of them!

Thank you once again for the reply and the assistance, I really hope I have clarified our situation a bit more, but I have definitely taken on board what you are saying. I just need to now convince the GF to use the gimbal because she says she feels a fool walking around with it!

Ritchie

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[Todd Terry]

I get what you are saying… just a couple of things…

As for the video effects….

[Ritchie Mellor] “The guys in the band love it…”

The guys in the band are wrong ☺ … kill those effects. Umm, and don’t do any “star wipes” either.

[Ritchie Mellor] “…we want to make it look good for the audience primarily…”

Yeah, you have to pick. No setup is going to look perfect for the live audience and for the camera, one is always going to be better than the other… which brings me to…..

[Ritchie Mellor] “What is difficult with the lighting is that we are being paid to play…”

Then don’t do it during a paying gig. Do you guys ever rehearse? Do that in a cool space, invite a few friends over to be your audience, and shoot that for your videos. Do one song, two, or run through your whole catalog. You will have complete control over lights and sound, and you can make sure everything is right for the cameras, not for the real people’s eyeballs. Or… find a cool venue or space or bar or tavern or pub, maybe some place you’ve played before, and offer them a gig for free. You can do the lighting and sound however you like and worrying about the audience experience won’t be your primary concern… hey they are getting a free show.

As for sound…

[Ritchie Mellor] “…does allow a bit of “forgiveness” from the viewer because they know it is a phone recording…”

Don’t fall into that trap too much. There’s an old adage that is absolutely true, people will often overlook marginal or even bad video, but they will NOT forgive bad audio. Great inventive images will really be noticed and get an audience’s attention, but great and perfect sound will not… it is simply expected. You are not a magic act or a dance troupe where the visuals are the most important thing…. you’re a band, you are selling what you sound like, that part needs to be as good as possible, no matter what it looks like. If your video looks great but sounds bad, that’s selling someone a rotten banana that has a perfect peel. They’ll want the banana until they tear into it to eat it… but after that, not so much. Or think about it this way in the music and music video world…. there are audio recordings that have no videos. But I can’t think of any music videos that have no audio track.

Audio is often the stepchild in video production (in our shop unfortunately that is true, too) and it’s easy to fall into the “that’s good enough” feeling about the sound side of things… but in your case the reverse should be true. Get the audio absolutely as good as you can… then get the video side “good enough.”

Of course in a perfect world both audio and video should be great. That’s the obvious goal.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com

[Mark Suszko]

Regarding the drunks in the audience, you’ll just have to recruit a semi-sober person to be a “roadie” and stand by the mic stand with the cheap gopro 4k on it and guard it. If only for one particular number. High-mounted cams near the ceiling or added to the light tree/grid are less likely to be interfered with by patrons, and if you put them up early enough, nobody coming in will notice them. Especially if planted in the lights.

[Ritchie Mellor]

Again, this is a constraint we have as generally there is just the band, but I am trying to work out the least conspicuous locations for them!

So would you recommend the budget action cams and just interpret to 24fps then as opposed to the GoPros? Obviously lighting conditions arent great so wondering if thats another factor to account for?

Ritchie

[Ritchie Mellor]

And what are wrong with Star Wipes exactly Todd??? ????????????

I agree with all your points, and I do want the audio as good as it can be. Given the way in which we are doing things and having looked at the work you do, I can see that there is as large disparity in the two, your videos are obviously professional and have a different purpose to what we are trying to achieve. That said, it doesn’t mean that I wouldn’t want our videos to look as good as yours, so I will take on board what you have said, after all, that is why I asked for your opinions, you guys know what you are doing and do it to a very high standard, and I am fumbling around trying to make the best of bad situation.

I guess what I am wanting is to be better than our competition in the local area, and do something that is more than what they produce video wise, which is videos straight from phones without any post production or thought beyond capturing it. Does that make sense?