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Literature
Hello,
Lemme run a scenario by you….actually less of a scenario and more of my life as an editor….
So I’ve always pictured myself as an editor – I taught myself how to use all the tools – FCP, After Effects, Photoshop, Mac’s, Camera’s, Decks, etc etc etc. I can make motion graphics, I can load footage, I can color correct. Generally I take a project when the story has been cut, and I do the fine cutting on it. I understand the difference between a well told story, a good cut, a bad cut, and everything else in between. I realize when a scene works well, and I can see when a scene just “doesn’t feel right.” I know when the flow isn’t working or when a shot just isn’t working. I get all of that.
What I don’t get however, is the art of cutting together that initial story. Lately I’ve been taking on both roles of offline editor and online editor. The offline is intimidating. I look at hours of raw footage and get overwhelmed. I try to visualize the edit in my head before I start cutting. I write down notes, ideas, and story flow, then I tackle the actual edit. But I’ve been finding this extremely challenging. Challenging to the point that I will edit something, think it’s great, then look at it and think it’s garbage.
Now I know there are not steadfast rules of editing, and that editing is clearly an art. However, I was wondering if there were any literature about the subject? This board is great – I just found it this morning and have been reading several of the posts. But is there something published? Like a “Best Editors in the World Share Their Insights” kind of book out there? Something that will take me away from the technical aspect of editing, and help me understand the story telling side of it? I feel saturated in the technical side – editing is more mechanical for me than organic. I want to switch that. I want to flip that. I want to focus on the organic. Any thoughts?
Nate
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19 Replies
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[nateboston] “I want to focus on the organic. Any thoughts?”
Yes, one thought.
Spent much of the free time in my twenties playing rhythm guitar in bands. Mostly original music – everything from rock to funk. Was pretty good too, until Carpal made me choose between the Les Paul and the Avid. (The Paul is now in an oak, glass-front gun rack.) Absolutely, positively the best tunes we made were ones that WE made – collectively. The “lone creative genius” is very hard to reproduce again and again. Having five people sharing the same brain kept the “mission” (if you will) of the music consistent.
Same holds true for editing. Without question, of all the films and programs I’ve churned out over the years the best are ones that nurtured a strong collaborative environment. The producer or director sitting next to me, arguing, clawing, molding footage, trying, failing, trying again, succeeding…
Literature on both theory and techncial advancements have helped the career about 10% total. The rest is by trial/error and collaboration. I’m a huuuuge advocate for aprenticeship editing. Find an editor who is more experienced. Even if he/she makes your skin crawl. Sit and learn. Load tapes, make coffee, get paid nothing, and watch. If he/she doesn’t actively teach you anything, at least you’ll learn passively. Actually I think that makes up more than half of how I’ve learned – by formulating my own opinions while watching others, and quietly saying “wow how stupid, I would do it differently.”
The rest of my learning has been the opposite – kids I’ve taught that tell me I’ve done a 12-step process when it could’ve been done in only eight.
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\`(=)`/…Pixel Monkey
`(___)A picture says 1000 words. Editors give them meaning.
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Have any of you watched the new Food Network show, Diners, Drive-ins and Dives?
(I have no offical connection to it, other than two of the guys I assisted 15 years ago when I officially got into the business are working on it now, so I don’t know much more than what I’m about to share…)
That’s truly a “collective effort” show, according to the editor I last spoke to about it. When they start out, there’s no real script. You can’t script a show like that. Up to three editors work on one show, one segment at a time. The producer takes the editor’s first cut and noodles with it more, making creative changes, and gives it back to the original editor for “smoothing out”. Then a completely different guy does the finishing, I think. (We didn’t talk about that part at all.)
So far, according to the guy I was talking to, it’s currently the highest rated show on the Food Network after only 3 episodes. (He acknowledges that whether it can hold that is yet to be seen.) It’s even doubled the fabled “South Park” rating. Apparently South Park has a very stable, very consistent rating. If your show can match it, you have a chance to get picked up or renewed. If you don’t match it, you may have troubles. Diners, Drive-ins and Dives DOUBLED it.
If just one guy was doing that show, I doubt it would have the same impact. Everyone working on that show has a hand in the success. If one guy was doing it, he’d probably already be dead.
The moral of the story….I say get a partner! Get a producer! I don’t think I’ve ever seen a book or anything that can really teach you how to find the story. Every one is so different, I don’t think there’s a way to encapsulate it into “teaching materials”. It really just is experience.
debe
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Nice debe.
Nateboston – but to answer the literature question (sorry got off-track):
https://www.amazon.com/When-Shooting-Stops-Cutting-Begins/dp/0306802724/ref=sr_1_23/002-3205459-1503255?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1179247637&sr=1-23______
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\`(=)`/…Pixel Monkey
`(___)A picture says 1000 words. Editors give them meaning.
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Hmmmm… interesting.
Because everyone who owns a $399 Dell computer can be an editor at home nowadays, I wonder if the professional future of nonlinear editors will be based greatly on their ability to strive in a collaborative environment. There’s a whoooooole lot of folks out there that can’t make collaborative criticism work for their creative outlet.
Probably will be based on the nature of the gig, huh? More so for the motion picture industry – like Pirates of the Caribbean, and less for ad agency or low budget indie films.
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/-o-o-\
\`(=)`/…Pixel Monkey
`(___)A picture says 1000 words. Editors give them meaning.
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[nateboston] “But is there something published? Like a “Best Editors in the World Share Their Insights” kind of book out there?”
There are several. Walter Murch (Appocolypse Now, The Godfather, Cold Mountain, Jarhead) has written a couple of books. He not only cuts great films, he writes about it very well, & he likes to postulate theories about film editing. I just did 2 quick searches on bn.com for “film editing” (614 hits) and “documentary editing” (102 hits). Do a search & peruse the results. Order a few books, & enjoy reading them.
[nateboston] “The offline is intimidating. I look at hours of raw footage and get overwhelmed.”
I had some drinks 2 weeks ago with a sound editor that I’m friendly with. He asked me, point blank, how do I cut a scene? Do I do the classic wide, medium, close? Do I start in close & move out to wide? Do I have some other, special idiosyncratic method?
I answered, as honestly as I could, that I try not to think about it too hard. I try to be more intuitive and less intellectual. I try to let the material & the scenes around it dictate how I start & how the scene flows. I often start with the establishing or master shot, but often start with a CU instead. Especially if we can bridge from the last scene with a matching CU, or if we have a good reason (pressing need?) to jar the audience.
With documentary material, of course, it’s a little different. You don’t always have a script to work from. you have to let the narrative emerge from the material that you have. IMO I think it’s even more important to not think about it too much and let the material speak to you, then find visuals to bridge whatever gaps you wind up with.
Arnie
Now in post: Peristroika, a film by Slava Tsukerman
https://www.arniepix.com/blog -
[Pixel Monkey] “(The Paul is now in an oak, glass-front gun rack.)”
I see something very ironic & poetic about that. Especially if there are some real guns in there with it!
BTW, I have an SG with soapbar pickups sitting in it’s case in the closet. It may be time to drag it back out… Or the arch-toped Gretch…
Arnie
Now in post: Peristroika, a film by Slava Tsukerman
https://www.arniepix.com/blog -
I appreciate your suggestion about literature. I guess my original question wasn’t so much about reading the answers in a book, but more “how do YOU do it?”
I should have also clarified that my work is mainly documentary style. I’ve been watching down footage and finding common “themes” within different scenes, then trying to stitch them together and get something that just feels right. Your line “I try to be more intuitive and less intellectual” really just hit home with me. I think I’m thinking about it too hard. lol, you know?
I guess you could call this “editors block”.
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[nateboston] “I think I’m thinking about it too hard.”
That’s really what I wanted to say, but I didn’t want to sound arrogant or offensive. 🙂
Arnie
Now in post: Peristroika, a film by Slava Tsukerman
https://www.arniepix.com/blog -
I think you’re right about the collective. However, I’ve been deliberately trying to sway away from that. I sort of feel like I need to prove myself as an editor right now, and to do that I need to be able to cut great things on my own. My boss (great editor btw) always tells me of a former editor that worked for him. In his words – “I could hand off footage to Former Editor and it would come back better than I could have imagined.”
That’s what I’m striving for – making it better than expected. However, lack of experience is a factor here, and bringing in others looks like it might be the most beneficial. As hard a pill that is to swallow….
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LOL, oh no it’s really okay! I’m a big fan of honesty! You can tell me I’m over thinking it! How else will I learn?
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