levels sd302

[Craig Alan]

Ty,

User error again. Sort of. Though unless it’s mentioned on some other page, the manual does not indicate this: The knob that controls headphone monitoring options also controls the LED monitoring options. So, if I switch to “1” rather than ST I can ride the level as you suggested at 12 even though the limiter is kicking in at 10. The problem with this is I want to use a breakout cable with RTN so that I’m headphone monitoring from the camera headphone out not the mixer headphone out.

Is there a way of having the best of both, or do we just toggle back and forth? This will get very difficult with three inputs. I’m working with sound devices support on this.

But here’s the thing. If we ride the input levels at +12 and apply an output limiter at +10, that means the output signal almost always has the limiter applied. Is this best practice? I mean the LIM is always lit?

OSX 10.5.8; MacBookPro4,1 Intel Core 2 Duo 2.5 GHz
; Camcorders: Sony Z7U, Canon HV30/40, Sony vx2000/PD170; FCP certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Ty Ford]

But here’s the thing. If we ride the input levels at +12 and apply an output limiter at +10, that means the output signal almost always has the limiter applied. Is this best practice? I mean the LIM is always lit?

Remember I said it depend on the nature of the transients. Fast transients will sneak through the limiter.

I set my 442 limiter at +14, with only 6 dB of headroom to +20 (0 dB on the camera). When I tried setting the 442 limiter to +20 or +18, I got “overs” on the camera from audio that sneaked past the output limiter.

You said your cameras were incapable of handling full scale audio, so I dialed it back for you to +10 limiter with +12 peaks. Regardless, you need to test this before committing on a shoot.

Regards,

Ty Ford

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[Craig Alan]

Oh Oh Oh. That was for the pd170. I would say that +14 limiter out and +12 levels IN would make sense.

But I still want to know how to use the LEDs for input monitoring and the headphone for camera headphone out monitoring using the RTN IN on the mixer with a breakaway cable at the same time.

Isn’t that common practive to want to hear what the camera is recording while using the mixer’s meters to adjust levels on the fly?

OSX 10.5.8; MacBookPro4,1 Intel Core 2 Duo 2.5 GHz
; Camcorders: Sony Z7U, Canon HV30/40, Sony vx2000/PD170; FCP certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Ty Ford]

Craig,

yes. Whenever possible you want to listen to the camera headphone output through the return.

Page 4.

14. Headphone Selector Switch
Sets the signal source sent to headphones. Options include: input PFL 1, 2, 3; left output bus; right output bus; Mono (summed left and right); STereo master; RTN – stereo monitor return; MS-mono; MS-stereo; RTN-MS.

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[Craig Alan]

Right. And if I set it to RTN the LEDs switch to output levels not input levels and certainly not individual input levels.

OSX 10.5.8; MacBookPro4,1 Intel Core 2 Duo 2.5 GHz
; Camcorders: Sony Z7U, Canon HV30/40, Sony vx2000/PD170; FCP certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Ty Ford]

I don’t know if the LDs switch or not, but that would be pretty obvious to see.

The 442 can be set to do that, but the default is NOT to.

Regards,

Ty Ford

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[Craig Alan]

Thanks. I’m going to try to work this out with Sound Devices. If not, it’s a feature request. All that said, the meters look fine on the Sony and they sound fine on input, on output, and monitoring from the Sony.

And although I’m kinda back to where I started, it is with a lot better understanding of how the mixer works.

OSX 10.5.8; MacBookPro4,1 Intel Core 2 Duo 2.5 GHz
; Camcorders: Sony Z7U, Canon HV30/40, Sony vx2000/PD170; FCP certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Craig Alan]

On a forward note, whenever you are sending signal to a camera and want more headroom, use the setup menu and add a few dB of output attenuation. Using the limiter is not a proper way of setting levels. The limiters are only (and should only be) used as a safety net for clipping. If one can maintain good input levels, have the limiters active and never hit them in a full day of production, the limiters were used properly. With a proper method of gain staging this is 100% possible.

Back to the original question: It is always best practice to mix with the ears and not the eyes. If you want to see the PFL signal on the meter, you will want to hear them too. So, the options are:

1) The monitor switch will tell the HP what to output and the meters what to display OR
2) The monitor switch will only send the selected signal to the HP and the meters will always stay on ST.

There is no way to see a signal being metered on the LED and not be able to hear it unless that signal is the ST output with the limiter attenuation applied. With proper gain staging applied to the signal flow, this works perfectly every single time. If you camera’ audio circuitry is easily overloaded, apply output attenuation and monitor the 302 output. Use the camera return as a momentary reference and return to monitoring the output of the 302. This is the most effective way of controlling the signal.

The final option would be to plug your HP directly into the camera. This way you could do what you are wanting to. Not recommended though.

OSX 10.5.8; MacBookPro4,1 Intel Core 2 Duo 2.5 GHz
; Camcorders: Sony Z7U, Canon HV30/40, Sony vx2000/PD170; FCP certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.

[Ty Ford]

Craig,

It’s not a circle, it’s a spiral. 🙂

Regards,

Ty Ford

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[Ty Ford]

Um, Craig, what’s your source for this?

Ty

Want better production audio?: Ty Ford’s Audio Bootcamp Field GuideWatch Ty play guitar