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Less a showdown, more a decision – Phillip Bloom outlines his reasoning for choosing PPro 6.
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[Oliver Peters] “I don’t see small shops or even big agencies with media departments pursuing this.”
disagree. You are incorrect here. I’m regularly in one- on two floors with 200 + peeps – regularly as freelance, and if adobe anywhere works, it is fundamentally transformative.
the kind of media duplication going on at OS level – grandfathering of renders, asset duplication, both primary and H264 offline across the network is off the scale. It’s a mess.
look oliver – there is an opportunity to fundamentally improve the workflow. FCP7 shunted and opened file organisation back into the finder, and we all stopped using avid because it was a locked box. It is fundamentally important to be able to see the assets contained in the edit in process, for multiple parties during the edit.
however. It cannot be as messy as the direct single finder item getting repeatedly duplicated, and it can’t be as black box as avid.
If adobe can properly virtualise and distribute the core video assets that feed into the suite, allowing trivial simultaneous collaboration, safe client clip picks and feedback tying into software like prelude from parties inside and clients outside the design organisation, within an ongoing project, if anywhere can implement this – if adobe manage a quarter of it, there actually is something fundamentally transformative and day to day useful in it.
https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics
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[Aindreas Gallagher] “If adobe can properly virtualise and distribute the core video assets that feed into the suite, allowing trivial simultaneous collaboration, safe client clip picks and feedback tying into software like prelude from parties inside and clients outside the design organisation, within an ongoing project, if anywhere can implement this – if adobe manage a quarter of it, there actually is something fundamentally transformative and day to day useful in it.”
That’s a HUGE “IF” and I just don’t see that sort of a system based on the demos Adobe has made available so far.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Oliver Peters] “That’s a HUGE “IF” and I just don’t see that sort of a system based on the demos Adobe has made available so far.”
sure.
but there are large parts of it standing, direct collaboration on the project is there, the assets are virtualised, and adobe do actually iterate like the proverbial hammer.
2013, as you say, is probably pretty much it.
https://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics
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[Oliver Peters] “Adobe Anywhere is viable for facilities that would otherwise invest in Avid Unity/ISIS/Interplay or Apple Xsan/Active Storage. I don’t see small shops or even big agencies with media departments pursuing this. And when you get right down to it, how many projects really function long-distance”
Actually most of my projects are long distance. I see adobe anywhere as a great way to further my workflow as much of my work involves interstate productions. Rather than a big facility SAN replacement, I see this as a way to further decentralise and also to avoid upload and download of full res media.
I can be grading and onlining and at the same time the DP and director can be at another facility interstate or overseas but watching with sufficient res to make decisions. Rather than constantly making h264s and uploading them for approval, I see this as a great way to have an interactive session. Similarly I sub out graphic design and AE work like rotoscoping. Again the AE artist can be anywhere and I have the full res work available plus an interactive session can happen with them plus me and the director somewhere else.
The power of Adobe Anywhere to me is to enable networking that is remote and reducing the need for single big networked facilities.
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[Oliver Peters] “Adobe Anywhere is viable for facilities that would otherwise invest in Avid Unity/ISIS/Interplay or Apple Xsan/Active Storage. I don’t see small shops or even big agencies with media departments pursuing this.”
I think that Adobe Anywhere’s long game could be the FCPX long game, upside down. FCPX starts with a dude and a laptop, then grows into small shops as its capabilities and ecosystem expand. Adobe Anywhere starts with big broadcast today, but as the costs of storage and bandwidth drop, it becomes more attractive to smaller facilities looking for improved efficiencies.
At launch, I think you’re right on that Anywhere is going to almost exclusively ISIS/Interplay-class installs. However, since Adobe isn’t tied to big-ticket hardware sales, they can only benefit if Anywhere trickles down to today’s Ethernet SAN/NAS set. I don’t know how long that will realistically take — my guess would be that 2013 is premature for major non-broadcast adoption — but what 5 or 10 seat shop would not want better collaboration if it were available to them?
Sure, there’s a lot of ifs here — but certainly no more ifs here than we regularly bandy about for FCPX.
[Oliver Peters] “And when you get right down to it, how many projects really function long-distance?”
Well, most of mine… long-distance doesn’t have to be across the world; it can be across town or across the state.
And outside my little bubble, virtually every large-scale VFX studio follows the sun today. They all have in-house systems for managing their assets and massive trans- and cross-continental data transfers.
What off-the-shelf options exist for long-distance work today in editorial? Interplay Sphere and Quantel? This is still a new space. A product like Adobe Anywhere that ties together multiple disciplines could create the ability for projects to function long-distance in a way that has been too hard to be worthwhile before.
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
[Michael Gissing] “I can be grading and onlining and at the same time the DP and director can be at another facility interstate or overseas but watching with sufficient res to make decisions.”
I think everyone is reading WAAAAAY too much into this. These are all nice ideas, but the demo indicates that you log into a remote server via the cloud and are working with proxy media over the web or theoretically over an in-house LAN/WAN. Nothing about you editing and your client simultaneously watching your work. This would mean you, the client and the media are at 3 different locations. And this only appears to work with Premiere Pro, so definitely no long-distance grading (SpeedGrade), mixing (Audition), etc. It’s also very unclear how dynamic the updates will be for on-the-fly changes other than cuts and dissolves.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Walter Soyka] “Well, most of mine… long-distance doesn’t have to be across the world; it can be across town or across the state.”
Sure, I do those, too, but we’re not talking about projects coming from out of town. That’s a different scenario than direct access to a server of media not co-located with you.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Oliver Peters] “I think everyone is reading WAAAAAY too much into this.”
Fair — we are talking about a product demo at this point. But more on this in a minute.
[Oliver Peters] “These are all nice ideas, but the demo indicates that you log into a remote server via the cloud and are working with proxy media over the web or theoretically over an in-house LAN/WAN.”
Not even proxy media — a live stream. All image processing is done on the server, and there’s zero media on the client.
[Oliver Peters] “And this only appears to work with Premiere Pro, so definitely no long-distance grading (SpeedGrade), mixing (Audition), etc.”
At the IBC SuperMeet, Anywhere product manager Michael Coleman spoke about the “future of workflows” and defined Anywhere as a “collaboration platform” to allow “After Effects, Premiere Pro, and Prelude to work together on shared assets across a network.” (SpeedGrade and Audition are conspicuously absent.)
FCPX gets a lot of credit for its ideas moreso than its implementations. In fact, many here are toughing the implementation out because they have some faith in the idea and believe Apple will make it better.
Anywhere — a collaboration platform — strikes me as a Big Idea. Like FCPX, the first version could be only the first step (though since it’s targeting big-iron broadcasters, as you’ve pointed out, I suspect it will be much sharper at launch than FCPX).
You are absolutely right (as usual) that the rest of us will have to wait and see, and to get back to Aindreas’s three-year window, I wouldn’t personally make or advise any purchasing decision based on these two public demos.
However, I don’t want to understate what Anywhere could become. The simple fact that Adobe has identified collaboration as a problem worth solving could be a big shift.
More specifically, though, the approach Adobe is taking with Anywhere is forward-thinking and open. It’s cloud-based without being fully cloud-dependent; you can work with new footage locally while uploads happen in the background and you can work on your own servers. Anywhere productions are backed by the Collaboration Hub, running a database instead of traditional project files and allowing multiple users and multiple applications simultaneous access. Anywhere will integrate with existing MAMs (it has to, since it’s aimed at broadcast) and the Collaboration Hub has APIs for extending the platform.
When Anywhere ships next year, it will not be everything we’re talking about in this thread, but at the same time, it’s already a lot more than a tool for simply sharing Premiere edits.
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
[Walter Soyka] ”
When Anywhere ships next year, it will not be everything we’re talking about in this thread, but at the same time, it’s already a lot more than a tool for simply sharing Premiere edits.”Although the demo, a year out from release showed just a project share, I am with Walter in that my expectation is for a far more collaborative workflow. Who knows how Speed grade will integrate but it makes no sense to have part of the CS6 package excluded from Adobe Anywhere so I may be extrapolating on their intended direction. If Adobe just come up with a simple project share, then it is still exciting but I am not just guessing that they intent more and beyond a Pr only collaboration. Sure I am taking a punt on Adobe’s end point but I can’t take such a risk with any other company at the moment.
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[Oliver Peters] ” It is certainly a is a good NLE, but just as foreign in design and methodology to most Avid/Adobe/FCP7 editors as is FCP X.”
Which is a major reason why Vegas never caught on.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf
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